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What happens when you touch a pickle to an AM radio tower

JCM9
22 replies
1d3h

For folks wondering why these sort of videos (there are lots on YouTube) always focus on AM towers:

1. On AM the radio energy literally pulses (the amplitude modulation) and thus the arcs of plasma will pulse too thus creating the audio noise. AM has a carrier wave that’s constant but the two sidebands of signal pulse from zero energy at silence to more power the louder the sound being transmitted. FM signals broadcast essentially the same power all the time since it’s the frequency and not the amplitude that’s changing.

2. Because the signal frequency is much lower on the AM broadcast bands the wavelength is much larger and thus the antennas are much bigger. On AM the tower itself is typically the antenna vs FM radio where the antenna is typically only a meter or two long at the top of a very tall tower. That’s what makes AM towers more dangerous as the tower can be carrying many kW of energy and if you touch it you’ll go zap zap. The towers typically sit on top of a ceramic insulator to insulate them from the ground whereas FM towers typically just are attached right to the ground (although with grounding straps for lightning protection).

Finally (some folks don’t always know this) you can operate AM on the frequencies typically used for FM… it’s just a mode and works on any frequency. Aviation radios operate on AM but in the VHF band near FM broadcast frequencies.

timr
10 replies
1d2h

Another thing to note, since people seem to be focusing on the RF aspect of this: there's 20-30 Amps running to the tower in this video. If your body is the connection to ground for a 20 Amp current, from any source, you're going to have a lot more to worry about than a burnt pickle (I guess it's cool that you'd make radio sounds while you died?)

When they put the pickle/hotdog/whatever an inch away from the tower without actually touching it, it doesn't even get warm. This isn't RF, it's just standard-issue AC electrocution. Maybe the one "radio" thing here is that the ground underneath a tower like this is essentially a big metal mesh, but even that isn't a factor -- they're literally hooking a jumper cable from the pickle to ground.

geerlingguy
5 replies
1d2h

RF burns are a lot different than electrocution-style burns, though. But I'm not an expert on either topic, I'd defer to some people who know more about it.

timr
2 replies
1d1h

Definitely, but this video is not that.

geerlingguy
1 replies
1d

Same disclaimer: I'm not an expert on this... but I have been talking a lot about RF burns and arcing with RF engineers, and I think there's more nuance to this.

It would be interesting to see the difference grounding a hot dog through 7 kW AC (60 Hz) and seeing any difference in internal heating and arcing. Maybe a topic to explore in another video—especially if I can get access to a transmitter manufacturer's testing lab...

timr
0 replies
22h8m

Sure. I'm not trying to suggest that it isn't a factor at all, just that it's not what's ablating the hot hot dog/pickle in this example. I wouldn't want to sit next to a working AM tower and have lunch or anything.

runjake
0 replies
1d

Anecdotal: I was cooked by some pretty powerful ECM [electronics countermeasures] gear, because an ECM officer was dumb and had his equipment turned on while on the tarmac. My abdomen was up against the area where the antenna was, about 6 inches away.

No outward signs of injury, I just felt an internal burning sensation and severe nausea pretty quickly. I was feeling okay after about a day or two. I never did get checked out by medical, so no clue of what permanent damage was done.

MisterTea
0 replies
1d2h

electrocution-style burns

Do you mean burning via resistive heat dissipation from current flow through flesh? There are also burns from plasma in arc discharge events. An arc discharge to the body can produce both.

hermitcrab
3 replies
22h25m

I had no idea that radio towers used that sort of ampage.

timr
2 replies
22h17m

I might be misremembering the tower (i.e. I might be remembering the amperage for a 50kW tower), but they definitely do.

Amperage on a 6kW tower will still be more than enough to kill you.

pclmulqdq
0 replies
20h14m

50 kW is a respectable AM station, while 6 kW is pretty short range.

geerlingguy
0 replies
21h32m

16A on this full array, as measured by the RF ammeter feeding the phasor in the transmitter building.

CobrastanJorji
8 replies
1d1h

Why would we want aviation radios to operate in AM? Is it just that we standardized on AM before the 60s, it works well enough, and migrating would require a worldwide effort? Or is there some interesting advantage to AM for planes? Maybe superior range?

retrac
0 replies
23h34m

It's also possible to detect the presence of an AM transmission (if not necessarily decode) at a much lower received power than with FM. With FM there's little in the way of graceful degradation. As signal strength falls it can go from full fidelity to silence with very little transition.

gwbas1c
0 replies
1d1h

The ability to receive multiple signals simultaneously is in some cases considered beneficial and is one reason that the aviation industry, and others, have chosen to use AM rather than FM for communications.
dumbo-octopus
0 replies
22h44m

This makes AM radio more fun to listen to, as you get knobs for both your radio and your mental “tuner”. At night, you can pretty consistently hear 3+ broadcasts at once, and listen to them all simultaneously a la overhearing many conversations at once in a busy room.

upofadown
0 replies
20h5m

Is it just that we standardized on AM before the 60s

This one mostly. As otherwise mentioned, there is some advantage in the case of multiple transmissions at once for AM, but in practice both are often entirely garbled. The loud tone caused by any slight difference in transmit frequencies is the big indicator that something has gone wrong. If one signal is much stronger than the other then that tone will be very faint and will likely be missed. So AM has something like FM capture effect in that case.

AM has allowed for very narrow channels on the aviation band. In Europe mostly, the channels are only 8.33 kHz apart. Typical narrow band FM voice communication requires 12.5 kHz.

Since the end points in aviation are usually within line of sight of one another, radio communication is very easy. Any modulation method would work well. Of course in practice this means that the equipment is allowed to degrade that much more before anyone gets around to fixing it...

nsxwolf
0 replies
23h56m

One reason is that AM signals blend together whereas with FM the stronger signal will tend to "capture" the others and be the only one heard. This matters a lot in busy airspace where multiple people may be talking simultaneously.

mlyle
0 replies
20h12m

To answer you in a different way:

Today we would build these systems with FM or digital voice.

But there are enough advantages we've gotten used to (graceful degradation, better handling of doubling, etc...) that it's not really unequivocally a win to switch to FM. There would be downsides that anger existing users, and it would be expensive, and the net benefit would be relatively small.

kmbfjr
0 replies
21h58m

Audio loudness is correlated to signal strength, so it is clear a very strong signal is from a source that is close, important to know in aircraft.

Two transmissions will produce a heterodyne (whine) due to the offset of carrier frequencies, so you hear both and the tone to know there are two transmitters. On FM, you’d hear only one, the strongest who captured your receiver.

ck2
1 replies
1d2h

The history of AM radio and the invention of the mechanical sparkgap transmitters by Reginald Fessenden is absolutely fascinating.

Imagine only having telegraphs and morse code and amateurs listening every night to the spark noises in morse then suddenly in 1906 (first done in 1900 !) you hear voices and music!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Fessenden

can't seem to direct link the photos but scroll down to see what you are talking about with the base of the tower being a massive insulator

scroll to: Brant Rock, Massachusetts, facility

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Fessenden#Rotary-sp...

unkeen
18 replies
1d12h

How is it possible that these towers have not been made more difficult to access? Is it usual for them to be secured only by a low fence?!

qwertox
7 replies
1d12h

As soon as some kids jump over the fence and at least one of them ends up in a hospital with a severe condition, those fences will get replaced.

hinkley
6 replies
1d12h

Technically the morgue is in the hospital…

ablation
5 replies
1d11h

Death is a pretty severe condition, too.

xattt
3 replies
1d8h

Highly incompatible with life.

pantulis
2 replies
1d5h

Sounds bad, is it reversible?

lesuorac
1 replies
1d4h

Yes but it takes 3 days.

function_seven
0 replies
1d4h

They tried to confirm this anecdote with a proper blind study, but the study kept proclaiming, "I can see now!"

hinkley
0 replies
21h25m

And several doctors have to interact with you even if you’re dead.

pewu
4 replies
1d11h

There's a broader area protected by a high fence with barbed wire. They had access there, cause the father is a radio engineer and have friends on various sites.

geerlingguy
3 replies
1d5h

It's also in bordered by two farms, with a flood plain across the street, in a rural part of St. Charles County, in MO. Granted, home builders keep building subdivisions closer and closer, but just 10-15 years ago the closest residence was a mile or so away (outside the couple farm houses).

There's also danger/warning signage around the entire property, on all fences (including those around the towers).

linuxguy2
2 replies
1d1h

Is that the KH0J transmitter? I've driven past that countless times and it seems so run-down I've often wondered if it was still transmitting. So many times I've wanted to park in the lot and take a gander... Probably for the better that I haven't!

tpoindex
0 replies
19h40m

Seeing the frequency on the sign with the FCC station ID brought back fond memories of the former licensee, KIRL. I listened to 1460 in the late 60's and early 70's when it played top 40 rock and roll. A nice alternative to the top 40 powerhouse at the time, KXOK 630.

geerlingguy
0 replies
1d

Yep! Honestly this site is about average in terms of local tower site upkeep. Many station owners let their sites run a bit wild, unfortunately.

razakel
0 replies
1d11h

There'll be a higher external fence for access by vehicles and people who need to go near the tower (someone is mowing that grass), the short fence is just a reminder to go no further unless authorised.

mcpherrinm
0 replies
1d12h

The AM radio tower that I know is near me has a short wooden fence close to the tower, and then a larger area surrounded by a high fence with barbed wire tops and warning signs.

lupusreal
0 replies
20h43m

Most train tracks don't even have a fence.

_joel
0 replies
1d10h

Jeff's dad works there :)

TeMPOraL
0 replies
1d11h

The tech is so old-school that it predates the fear culture.

BoxOfRain
12 replies
1d8h

A soapbox of mine here in the UK is that since BBC and commercial AM radio is more or less dead with the remaining stations set to close over the next few years, Ofcom should open up the band to low-power broadcasting hobbyists. These already exist illegitimately and have done for decades, you can pick up plenty from the Netherlands and a few domestic ones as well on a sporadic schedule.

It would be a nice thing to do from several angles I think and would help drive interest in radio as a technology in general; as well as building transmitters and aerial systems, there's things like setting up an audio processing chain to get the best possible modulation and being a disc jockey which will always have a bit of a buzz from being on the 'real' radio. If valves and vintage equipment are involved it would be an interesting form of technology history preservation and 'living history', and there's also an environmental angle where old analogue radio receivers could be prevented from becoming e-waste.

There could be a minimal licencing regime to demonstrate the individual is not a complete numpty and a fee to PRS for music rights along the lines of how streaming works. Maximum power could be kept low especially at night to avoid interfering with countries in Europe where AM radio is still an active platform, and I don't think there'd need to be a lot of enforcement with respect to content since you'd only realistically be broadcasting to other anoraks. Additionally there's already precedent for non-profit stations where the medium of AM itself plays a role, for example former pirate Radio Caroline which uses it to keep its historic radio ship in operation.

bArray
8 replies
1d7h

I think lots of communities running localised AM stations could be super cool.

There could be a minimal licencing regime to demonstrate the individual is not a complete numpty [..]

I wouldn't bother and it just adds more resistance.

[..] and a fee to PRS for music rights along the lines of how streaming works.

I think the quality is so low and the audience so few that it wouldn't matter.

Maximum power could be kept low especially at night to avoid interfering with countries in Europe where AM radio is still an active platform, [..]

Yeah, not sure where the sweet zone would be though.

[..] and I don't think there'd need to be a lot of enforcement with respect to content since you'd only realistically be broadcasting to other anoraks.

That would be the point, just low-power decentralised communities. Only real reason to get involved is if the power goes too high or band use is not respectful to other users.

WarOnPrivacy
3 replies
1d4h

I think lots of communities running localised AM stations could be super cool.

I agree. My US thoughts on the likelihood of (and potential outcome of) opening AM to the public - they all focus on content.

US AM content is mostly religious, conservative, sportsball and ethnic-usually-Latino. Those are the opposing interests to opening AM. To counter opposition, I'd open the upper half of the AM band to the public. To ease friction, I'd lift any regulatory fees and offer subsidies to offset costs.

As for content on the newly open bands, I could see at least 2 of the current AM interests firehosing cash to saturate the newly open bands and markets (which might unwind over the long term).

the_arun
2 replies
1d3h

Where is the energy coming from? The power source towers are connected? Already our electric bills are super expensive. How can we run localized AM Stations with high cost of maintenance?

bArray
1 replies
1d2h

It depends how powerful, but running a 1kW station could be feasible for a home owner. Also I imagine they would generally have operating times which would greatly reduce operational overheads.

WarOnPrivacy
0 replies
1d2h

True and a community station might have community content and funding. Buying airtime is as old as broadcasting.

It could also power down for a bit. I'm old enough to remember commercial TV going off-air overnight.

dgacmu
2 replies
1d5h

The reason for licensing is similar to the reason for licensing ham radio: you get a slightly higher level of clue about not creating huge amounts of accidental interference, and a point of contact to yell at if they do. and a little safety education....

The ham radio licensing process is not onerous.

bArray
1 replies
1d3h

I went through it (admittedly many years ago), but ham licensing wouldn't really do anything for safe radio operation. I learned the real stuff from two very experienced operators.

It would probably be easiest to regulate the transmitters than the people using them.

dgacmu
0 replies
1d2h

Me too, but at least there's some stuff in there (for extra) about RF safety. Not a lot, but enough that someone with an extra class license should know that they need to go do some calculations about the safe distance from their antenna based upon radiated power, etc., and hopefully that's enough to get them to actually do it. IIRC there was a question or two in the pool about RF burns.

Not much in there that would stop you from electrocuting yourself, though, I agree.

Licensing the transmitters is the FCC's other standard approach and would probably work except for radiated power safety and antenna issues -- which can be pretty big. You could easily create significant interference or hazard from a botched antenna or connection. (But also which you don't learn enough from just passing the exam.)

BoxOfRain
0 replies
1d6h

That's a good point about the regulation given the low quality, I suppose if it was a problem they'd already have gone after public SDRs capturing the broadcast bands.

It doesn't sound like the sort of thing Ofcom would go for as I suspect it'd be seen as making unnecessary work for them, but you never know. Someone there clearly likes Radio Caroline (despite Ofcom's predecessors having fought to close it for decades in its pirate days) because they got awarded a 1 kW and later 4 kW power limit when AM community stations are usually much lower, so there might be sympathy towards the idea of more community AM generally. It would be a difficult thing to lobby for politically I think because it's such a niche interest, but it'd be an easy thing for them to do and there's not much else that part of the spectrum can be used for easily.

neilv
1 replies
1d4h

Just yesterday, I was talking with a colleague in the UK, who's selling a serious-sounding amateur radio tower.

Whilst waiting for regulatory change, besides amateur radio station, are there other fun RF things one could do with such a tower's height?

geerlingguy
0 replies
1d4h

Stick a meshtastic node at the top of the tower and be the envy of every meshtastic user!

justanother
11 replies
1d6h

I understand he got permission and everything was checked out by actual RF eggheads, but damn. I won't even change a HV run capacitor unless i'm wearing crocs, standing on cement, and wearing the rubber oven mitts. And even then, I keep one hand behind my back. Because there have been accidents, and they hurt (the pool pump run cap fails approximately annually in this climate and if I paid someone to change it every time, I'd be a lot poorer).

That said, the food demodulating the signal into audible noise is badass.

SoftTalker
6 replies
1d2h

Just short the terminals with a screwdriver before you touch anything else? (Look away in case there's an brief arc flash)

FiatLuxDave
3 replies
1d

Oh man, that reminds me of a mistake I made a few years back.

I had opened up a motor controller to fix it, and I knew to discharge the cap before messing around inside. I applied a screwdriver across the terminals to short it out, and was rewarded with a beautiful long and skinny arc as the screwdriver came into contact. I said out loud, "That was cool", and my coworker sitting behind me said, "What was cool"? I told him that I had just shorted out the cap and the arc looked really cool. So he said, "Can you show me?" I said sure, and plugged the controller in for a few seconds to recharge it, then unplugged it and proceeded to repeat what I had just done.

What I had forgotten was that previously the motor controller had been unplugged overnight. When I touched the screwdriver to the freshly charged capacitor, there was a boom, a three inch fireball, and the end of the screwdriver was completely gone. As I sat there thunderstruck, my coworker said, "You're right. That was pretty cool".

jdironman
2 replies
23h43m

Well, your comment was my deep laugh for the day. excellent story. When I was younger, I saw my father working on a ceiling fan...while it was on. I asked him why he did not flip the breaker first and he said "well, as long as you don't touch both wires at the same time, you'll be fine "

Fast forward a few days later I am at school, and I see in one of the outlets one of the prongs for a power cable had broken off in it. I remembered his advice about not touching both sides and proceeded to try and pull it out using my fingers...you can probably imagine what happened. It grabbed hold of me for a few seconds and a lesson was learned.

SoftTalker
1 replies
22h26m

In theory, if you were wearing rubber shoes and not touching any other path to ground, you would have been fine.

jdironman
0 replies
19h15m

I think supporting myself by holding the metal of one of those school desks was a factor possibly.

quickthrowman
0 replies
20h30m

Ideally you’d short a run cap with a suitable resistor, but you’re right, short the cap right after de-energizing the motor circuit before touching it with your hands.

justanother
0 replies
1d1h

Yeah, I try to bleed it with a long-handle screwdriver for 30 seconds. In fact, the couple times I've managed to zap myself was with residual current even after that, so I can't imagine what the full potential is. It's just a no-fun job.

shepherdjerred
1 replies
1d3h

Why standing on cement? Wouldn't cement be considered a ground?

alexjplant
0 replies
1d3h

Indeed it is. Anybody who's spent time jamming in old basements with bad ground or two-prong plugs has learned this the hard way via a microphone or guitar (myself included). Shoes are essential - not even flip-flops are good enough because even something as simple as walking across a wet lawn will leave enough residual moisture to zap you.

fortran77
0 replies
23h9m

Cement is surpisingly conductive. I have a thick rubber mat I stand on when doing high voltage (CRT, etc) repair work, and even then I have a full set of rated protective gear, and precautions (one hand in pocket, etc)

BenjiWiebe
0 replies
9m

Does your pool pump run capacitor actually not have a bleed resistor? I thought that was standard issue in start/run capacitors.

ljf
10 replies
1d12h

I mentioned over dinner at my parents house (about 20 years ago) that I'd read that running 240v through a gherkin would cause it to glow - and pretty much as soon as dinner was over, my father and I had the experiment set up.

Gherkins and even pickled onions glowed brilliantly. I set up a basic site to share the video we'd taken and details of the experiment, and shared it to B3ta. Sadly all lost to time.

vatys
1 replies
1d11h

Further testing indicated that the taste was neither enhanced nor diminished, but remained ‘‘very much like a pickle.’’ Our conclusion is that the culinary potential of electrical stimulation is limited.

voidUpdate
0 replies
1d5h

I think bigclive would disagree about that, he is known for electrocuting his sausage and sometimes enjoying the taste after

dekhn
1 replies
1d2h

One of the authors, Alan Eustace, was an exec at Google (in the days when execs at Google had a clue) and also holds the record for highest jump (135K feet).

edm0nd
0 replies
1d

Bill Gates can actually jump over a chair. og Tech execs are awesome at jumping it seems!

smolder
0 replies
1d11h

This is gold and I will be keeping this .PDF in my rather limited data hoard.

xattt
2 replies
1d8h

I see a similar comment at the end of the original article that mentions that pickles incandesce. Is it true incandescence or is it just internal arcing?

ljf
0 replies
1d4h

I wish I had the video still - maybe I need to run the experiment again, this time with my kids?

Tangent: I look back sometimes and realise how stupidly lucky I was to have a father who not only humoured my crazy ideas, but actively encouraged them - I only hope I am doing the same for my kids.

kallistisoft
0 replies
20h53m

Many many moons ago I connected a pickle to a 10kv transformer - in that case at least it was definitely the result of arcing :)

hinkley
0 replies
1d12h

Pretty sure my high school physics teacher did this one.

bjornsing
5 replies
1d10h

A grounded pickle. The word grounded is very important here, and missing from the question in the title.

eternauta3k
3 replies
1d5h

I wonder if a floating human would still get zapped, due to its non-trivial capacitance to ground.

bityard
1 replies
1d2h

Not to do with RF, but there are old YT videos of HV linemen who literally hop out a helicopter onto an HV transmission line to manually inspect it. As the helicopter approaches, they hold out a long pole which is bonded to the aircraft's frame to bring it to the same potential as the line. It starts arcing quite a few feet out until the potential is neutralized and the lineman can "safely" step out onto the line and start working.

I imagine this inspection work is done with camera-equipped quadcopters nowadays.

geerlingguy
0 replies
1d4h

Many tower climbers historically jumped onto AM towers (usually at lower power levels), and they still felt little shocks climbing the tower.

Even if the tower is off, if it's near any other sites, they can draw a significant amount of RF (as a good AM tower is a good AM antenna) and if it's not grounded, that RF will go through a person too!

This specific tower site doesn't require lights on the shorter towers, so it's not an issue here, but for sites with lights needing replacement, most nowadays turn off power to the tower and ground it before anyone climbs the tower.

geerlingguy
0 replies
1d5h

We also tested a floating hot dog (we detached the leads from the ground wire, so it was basically the hot dog and about 3' of unattached copper wire), and it still made little sounds as it was touched to the tower. We didn't have a way to safely touch the hot dog with no extra wire attached, unfortunately.

Supernaut
5 replies
1d10h

What I didn't see explained in these videos, and which I'm now curious about, is the mechanism by which the hot dogs convert the radio signal into sound? I understand how a loudspeaker works, but since food products typically don't contain coils and magnets, how was the AM signal being demodulated and converted into sound waves?

ryukoposting
0 replies
1d5h

I'm not an RF engineer, but I'll take a stab at it:

With any modulation scheme, you have the "carrier signal" and the "message signal." The carrier is the frequency you dial into your radio. The message is the thing you listen to - voice, music, whatever. Those two get "modulated" together and blasted out over an antenna, and ta-daa, radio!

Amplitude Modulation is really, really simple. It's literally just the product of the carrier signal by the message signal. The carrier signal is a really high frequency relative to the message, which is where I'm guessing the "resolution" of the signal comes from.

Now, hot dogs.

Hot dogs probably don't resonate very well. Or, maybe they do, but just a little bit at low-ish frequencies - up to a couple thousand Hertz, but no higher. If that's the case, then a hot dog would act like a low pass filter! Since AM is just the product of a high-frequency carrier and a low-frequency message, a low-pass filter could ostensibly leave behind something that resembles the message signal.

Proper AM demodulation involves diodes and whatnot, but I can't imagine a hot dog has semiconductive properties.

Now, if it's an electrical signal, why can we hear it through the hot dog? A hot dog is not a good antenna. It's bad at inducing an electromagnetic field around itself. Instead, it converts the energy from the radio tower into mechanical force - motion, like the way a speaker moves.

All of this could be wrong. Maybe the hot dog isn't serving as a filter, and it is indeed reproducing the AM carrier signal - it's just too high of a frequency for us to hear it. I don't remember my signal processing classes well enough to say for sure. Maybe my whole "hot dog is a speaker" explanation is bunk. Maybe hot dogs really are semiconductors. Not sure.

fuzzfactor
0 replies
1d5h

The closer you are to the source of the radio waves, the less sensitivity will be needed in the receiver, and less audio gain you will need in your reproduction device.

And the less efficiency you will need in your speaker, aka transducer.

At these conditions there is also no more need for user-supplied power for the audio output to become audible, so no electronic amplification is needed.

As you get closer to the source the need for a carefully crafted, somewhat complex, receiver circuit will diminish, and when there is only one audio program being broadcast on a single radio frequency, no need to discriminate between different frequencies.

In an electronic radio, after the single radio frequency channel has been selected, then the radio frequencies are filtered out before electronic gain is applied to the audio alone. Otherwise audio power would be wasted amplifying radio frequencies that are not audible.

The hot dog emulates all of these requirements, except for the receiver sensitivity that would be needed to respond very strongly from a distance. No noticeable demodulation until it touches the source directly.

Then as a single-component device, a low-efficiency transducer, it conducts the full undemodulated RF power.

Its frequency response as a transducer is probably not even as high as human hearing can go, and people can not hear any RF being reproduced anyway, so all you hear is the audio.

Plus when it comes to hot dog conductivity, who could forget this futuristic home appliance from the 1960's:

Amy demonstrates the Presto Hot Dogger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbQmp7yC-Y

eternauta3k
0 replies
1d5h

Putting an AM signal through any non linear process will give you (shitty) demodulation.

boneitis
0 replies
23h45m

I haven't watched it yet, but they state in the beginning of Geerling's vid that Plasma Channel (run by the third guy in the video) should be covering this in their own simul-published video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NowhPAMDOTo

JohnMakin
4 replies
1d6h

I always wonder if there would be any pain in the death that results from touching one of these. I’d assume it’d be instant from the electricity traveling through your heart - or would you just burn up more slowly?

gosub100
1 replies
1d1h

it may not kill you. the ways that electricity harms the body is unpredictable. Depends on things like bare skin vs gloves, humidity, sweat, what phase your heart is in at that exact moment, and probably many more factors. since the voltage is oscillating very quickly, it _may_ not cause your muscles to lock up, so you _may_ just get the zap of your life and bounce off. Whereas other types (non-RF) electrocution cause the muscles to lockup and for them to remain in contact with the voltage, which increases the chances of death.

JohnMakin
0 replies
20h49m

All I’m reading from this is “electric shock - nature’s russian roulette.”

What you wrote makes sense from my layman’s understanding. thanks!

tigerlily
0 replies
1d6h

Might end up in hospital for three days, and then die.

alnwlsn
0 replies
1d2h

I've been gently bit by a small Tesla coil before (100s of kHz but lower frequency than AM). There is absolutely no 'electrical' pain to speak of - it is nothing like getting a static shock or touching line voltage. However, it still hurts because it burns you, like touching a tiny flame, which is the only way I could tell anything was happening. It also vaporizes your skin, which smells terrible.

kazinator
2 replies
1d12h

If it's forty below, your pickle freezes to the tower and you have to call 911.

tabtab
0 replies
22h15m

End result of horny people watching "A Christmas Story".

saagarjha
0 replies
1d11h

Bonk

geerlingguy
1 replies
1d4h

We actually tried that experiment; the tubes we had were a little older, so not sure how much that affected it vs the power at this site (the middle tower is 7 kW, which is a lot less than the 50 kW towers at more mid/high power AM sites).

But it didn't light up near the tower. It did near the RF circuits above the phasor, though!

chadcmulligan
0 replies
5h9m

I have heard the story a number of times from old radio guys that it works

awful
2 replies
1d3h

side comment; Cub Scout project books of the 1960s, as I recall, had you make a hot dog cooker by connecting line voltage to two nails through a board...

awful
0 replies
1d2h

Haha; Thank You for sharing that.

thelastparadise
1 replies
1d6h

I'll be keeping my pickle far away from any radio towers.

tabtab
0 replies
22h12m

If you simply had my personality, your pickle would never be at risk of getting used.

pacaro
1 replies
1d3h

The tech trivia related to this that springs to mind is that the DEC Alpha processor was known internally by the code name EV, which stood for "Electric Vlasic" — although the suits backfit this in to "Extended VAX".

(Vlasic is an American pickle brand.)

dekhn
0 replies
1d2h

well, alan eustace who's on the DEC electropickle paper also worked on the alpha, I bet he suggestedit.

greesil
1 replies
1d12h

Not to state the obvious, but isn't there a damned good reason the tower is fenced off? You can see the fence in several of the pictures.

stavros
0 replies
1d11h

You can also see the reason in several of the pictures.

chilling
1 replies
1d10h

Sometimes I feel sorry for myself when I read articles like this. At the end of the page, I usually start asking myself, "Why was I even curious about this?" Anyway, I will probably use this knowledge in 10 years. Hopefully (so far, that’s how things have been going for me).

thepuppet33r
0 replies
1d9h

I mean, sometimes it's edifying to just find out cool stuff about the world and the ways it feels a little magical. We have a local power company here that has a trailer with a set of power wires and a transformer on it, and at their events, a TRAINED linesman will do tricks with it. They spend the first half of the presentation doing safety instructions ("don't touch the wire because you'll get fried", "here's how squirrels can cause shorts") and the other half doing magic tricks like making pinwheels spin, metal film levitate, etc. Fun stuff to see.

walrus01
0 replies
22h36m

As a sort of a side note for everyone who thinks AM radio is dead as a useful medium, they've probably never lived and driven a car in a city that has:

(a) a 50kW AM radio station with frequent and accurate traffic updates, often much better detail than what you can get from using google maps or waze or similar, and

(b) massive, frequent traffic problems and congestion at major bridge and tunnel locations.

It's still a very useful thing to have when driving and you don't need to take your eyes off the road at all.

topspin
0 replies
20h3m

In the taxonomy of RF circuits, the pickle is an (extremely inefficient) direct-conversion receiver.

I've seen at least on video of this being done with a wrench, where the RF current forms a visible arc through the air to the wrench.

tokai
0 replies
1d9h

Reminded me of this old classic video of some intrepid guys getting tufts of grass to play music with the help of a radio tower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UO9tn4MpI

surfingdino
0 replies
1d12h

That tower is TikToker magnet.

pvaldes
0 replies
18h23m

So, here I am, watching a sausage being tied and tortured until it starts to talk... I need to go sleep, definitely.

pjerem
0 replies
1d13h

OK that was pretty unexpected :)

kylehotchkiss
0 replies
1d12h

Being curious is a virtue. Now I know how to avoid having to deal with a copper flavored pickle if I get too close to my nearest AM transmitter.

jhallenworld
0 replies
1d

A thing that just happened in Boston is that Bloomberg swapped their relatively low power transmitters with iHeart's Alternative Rock 92.9. This is awesome for Bloomberg's reach, but it means that we now have an AM rock station, probably for the first time since the 1960s: 1330 AM. We'll see how long this lasts.. Red Hot Chili Peppers on AM right now..

grugagag
0 replies
1d

Is pickle a new term for hot dogs? Probably similar conductors are congruent in this case, the heating/buring makes a lot of sense but what I wonder though is how it produces sound.

fortran77
0 replies
23h7m

On a related topic, they used to sell to consumers hot-dog cookers that just put mains voltage through a hot-dog. Here's Big Clive pumping 2x the rated volage through one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZZbuOeNmw

amelius
0 replies
1d4h

Why isn't there a bigger fence around it?

_joel
0 replies
1d9h

Don't tell Rick Sanchez

JosephRedfern
0 replies
1d3h

I'm curious as to how much paperwork was involved here. Was the pickle grounding out the transmitter and (presumably) interrupting the broadcast not an issue?