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Minuteman missile communications

nirav72
11 replies
20h41m

Interesting article. I have always been curious about how weapons systems like missiles communicate with command and control systems. Especially how the datalinks worked on cold war era systems. Not a lot of info out there. So this article was a good read.

tonetegeatinst
9 replies
19h12m

Believe it or not, ITAR regulation.

https://isititar.com/

kejaed
7 replies
19h0m

As someone who has this week been going through, in detail (is there any other way?), the American CCL and Canadian ECL, this is absolute gold. Thankfully the items in question are no longer on the USML…

neilv
6 replies
18h1m

This is hilarious.

One time, I had to speak up, that something might actually be ITAR, before an imminent potential violation.

I probably didn't make any new friends on that occasion, but the situation was taken seriously, and violation was averted.

lb1lf
4 replies
11h53m

...and the less is spoken of the time I had visited a CubeSat workshop at CalPoly carrying the actual flight prototype of my university's first effort in my carry-on - for compliance testing - the better.

I found out the interesting way when leaving the States that ic it goes into space, it comes with lots of ITAR red tape of which I and my university had been blissfully unaware.

Being escorted onto my flight (which had been held for an hour!) by a couple of State Department officials who simply told me to sit in the first available seat when we got aboard was kind of cool, though. Instant upgrade to business class, and the pax in the vicinity probably spent the flight wondering who the heck I was and what I had been up to...

picture
2 replies
10h45m

Cubesat Developer's Workshop? Which year was this, if you don't mind me asking?

The funny thing is that I did pretty much the same thing, I had our flight computer prototype in my hoodie pocket to fidget with (since I'm leading all the electronics for the project) but luckily we weren't travelling far and didn't get any invitations from the government folks.

lb1lf
0 replies
7h20m

2004, methinks.

Our first sat, NCUBE, never made it out of the launch canister once in space; the 2nd one was on a failed launch which probably made some Kazakh farmer's day very interesting - judging from the photos I saw, it seems it came down in a wheat field - but the third one deployed successfully, but at that time, alas, I had graduated.

Vecr
0 replies
10h14m

Is that an ESD hazard? Do you have a special antistatic hoodie?

minetest2048
0 replies
9h7m

This is one of the BS of space engineering. Apparently if you combine a Pi CM4 with a carrier board manufactured in China running open source Linux, and you say its for a cubesat going to space, it might fall under ITAR

This is why a lot of European space hardware sellers have ITAR-free as their selling point

XorNot
0 replies
14h28m

Also a problem for rocket propulsion content on YouTube interestingly enough.

RCitronsBroker
0 replies
11h36m

this is the best thing I’ve seen today so far LOL

sandworm101
0 replies
18h39m

Lol. It is because many of those old "cold war" systems are still in use today.

amluto
8 replies
18h13m

Various options including DSL over HICS cables and radio were considered, but the current plan is to trench new fiber-optic cables across the launch fields. They're less interesting, but fiber optic cables have both capacity and reliability advantages over telephone cables, and could easily remain in service for the life of the Sentinel program.

I was actually a bit surprised there was nothing about lightning and EMP suppression. I’m no expert on EMP effects, but multiple-mile-long cable loops underground seem like the kind of thing that would develop large induced currents in the presence of a varying magnetic field.

Nonconductive fiber optic cables are entirely immune to these effects. And they’re less expensive than copper!

skhr0680
5 replies
12h54m

Wouldn’t they have already launched before suffering any ill effects from EMP?

ben_w
3 replies
10h3m

It only takes one nuke to make an EMP that can mess up most of the continental USA, that's something which could plausibly be done as a first strike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

Now I think about it, how is the international law banning nukes in space actually enforced? E.g. if Russia just put one on a satellite and didn't tell anyone, does anyone have any way to notice?

pooper
1 replies
7h1m

Now I think about it, how is the international law banning nukes in space actually enforced? E.g. if Russia just put one on a satellite and didn't tell anyone, does anyone have any way to notice?

I am way out of my depth to say anything about this but I am just asking questions. I think we have to define a few words here

space

what does space mean? I mean where will the detonation take place? Is it low earth orbit? geostationary orbit? is it past the orbit of Jupiter? outside the solar system (like voyager 1)?

nukes

How big is this nuke?

If it is small enough and far enough, do we care?

ben_w
0 replies
5h28m

From my previous link: 10 kT seems to be "big enough" to cause problems.

Likewise "space" (for a HAEMP) means "up to about 500 km" — diagram from the previous link, based on h = 400 km: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EMP_mechanism.png

For the purposes of "where can nukes not be stationed according to the Outer Space Treaty of 1967": (1) orbit, (2) any celestial body, (3) anywhere else in outer space:

Article IV

States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.
lazide
0 replies
4h54m

That’s nominally the reason for the CIA - and every other national intelligence agency.

jcrawfordor
0 replies
44m

The main reason NEMP (nuclear EMP) became a big concern during the Cold War is its potential for use as a defensive weapon. For example, a large part of military EMP research was done with the specific aim of hardening strategic bombers, after it was realized that the USSR could use a single well-placed high-altitude NEMP to disable most of the SAC fleet as it passed over the north pole. Similarly, in most attack scenarios the USSR would almost certainly have made a high-altitude detonation over the ICBM fields one of their first moves.

I started off on a more detailed explanation of the timing issue, why we may not be able to launch before inbound weapons arrive, but it's kind of a complex topic that changed quite a bit over time. I might write something more in-depth about it later.

jcrawfordor
1 replies
17h48m

Lightning protection in these types of cables is well understood, since the telephone system contended with the same problem. Fortunately EMP effects are mostly accounted for by lightning protection, when it comes to the outside plant. There are definitely lightning arrestors where cables enter facilities, but I would wager the facilities were built with halo grounds. There is integral EMP shielding in the design of the bunkers, as well, with a steel liner surrounding the concrete.

dredmorbius
0 replies
10h35m

Lightning isn't the only phenomena of interest to ICBM silo ops which generates EMP.

twoodfin
4 replies
16h43m

For anyone who hasn’t seen it, the highly hn-relevant film WarGames kicks off with a launch order scene between a MCCC and a DMCCC that doesn’t depart wildly from the description here.

The rest of the film is pretty good, too!

Turn your key, sir!

wkat4242
3 replies
14h47m

What about the fake house? Was that realistic? I've always wondered.

I can imagine shaping buildings like a house to fool satellites but the furnished living room looked a bit too much. I assume these bases were military territory with fences around them.

ben_w
1 replies
9h56m

Thinking of (possibly) fake building, was noodling around Google Maps looking for some interesting walks in my area, and found these surprisingly widely spaced groups of buildings:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/K5MMuAdLtZ63hL8Y8?g_st=com.google.ma...

Might well be totally mundane, but it sure seems odd to me with my complete lack of knowledge about civil engineering.

crote
0 replies
6h37m

They're pig or chicken farms, if you go on a walk you can tell by the absolutely awful smell. Note the vertical cylinders for food storage in your link. I bet the spacing is mainly due to environmental regulations.

randall
4 replies
19h46m

my dad was a pm for this stuff. i have no idea what he did as he retired by the time i was 8 (92) but this was his world.

anyone know anything else about this stuff? i’ve often considered trying to recreate his career path. (he died about 5 years ago.)

toomuchtodo
1 replies
19h45m

Seek out roles at defense contractors related to work on the weapons systems in question.

M3L0NM4N
0 replies
12h26m

I just started a software engineering job at Lockheed Martin a couple weeks ago working on communication systems. Not sure if I can say what though to be honest, and I’m going to err on the side of safety here. I’ll be working on F-22 communications in a few months when/if my program clearance comes through. Super cool so far though.

kelp
0 replies
18h54m

I can't really help with what you're specifically looking for, but I'm pretty sure my grandfather worked on these as an engineer. He retired from Boeing in 1985. Died almost 20 years ago.

jacoblambda
0 replies
15h15m

It's honestly not too hard to go down a similar path. Defense contractors are literally always hiring and most job apps will give you a decent idea of what you are working with so you can more or less pick your poison before you even join. Of course long term you'll get moved around but you can generally pick your site (which decides what you work on).

GrantS
4 replies
18h32m

Coincidentally, I just toured the South Dakota minuteman launch control facility this week [1] and it was fascinating. The park ranger giving the tour was a veteran who manned the facility decades ago — amazing stories. You need to book tickets a few months in advance but well worth it if you’re in the area to visit Badlands, Mt. Rushmore, etc.

[1] Run by U.S. National Park Service: https://www.nps.gov/mimi/

underbooter
0 replies
14h36m

A few months in advance? I've gone to another SD site multiple times and you don't even need a ticket.

matheusmoreira
0 replies
12h0m

amazing stories

Please share them!

chromozonex
0 replies
18h25m

Yep, I’d highly recommend this as well. We did this a year or two ago as well and it was wild how the underground facilities worked, how small they were, and how remote and nondescript they were. Highly recommend visiting these sites if you’re into history!

tamimio
3 replies
18h46m

Very good read, thanks for sharing it. Side note: All the pictures have the geolocation data embedded into them.

CamperBob2
1 replies
13h13m

There's actually a KML link buried in the text: https://computer.rip/f/minuteman/90th-mw.kmz

It will open directly in Google Earth and put you right on the scene in Armageddon, Wyoming, which appears to be roughly eighty miles south of Bumfark, Nowhere.

lazide
0 replies
4h53m

If ever there was a good place for Armageddon, it would be there.

notarealllama
0 replies
16h27m

A fellow exif fan I see

justinator
1 replies
15h49m

Crazy that the communication system doesn't seem to be that much more advanced than tin cans and a string when compared to modern day. Guess the same can be said for the weapons themselves.

ocdtrekkie
0 replies
57m

It is just a different set of requirements. They don't need to stream Netflix but they need to survive nuclear war. Simpler, lower bandwidth systems are much more "advanced" in this context, and much more repairable on-site.

stoperaticless
0 replies
2h6m

Relevant quote:

This is the basic premise of cable pressurization: Keep the pressure within the cable in excess of the pressure that could be applied by standing water.
kens
0 replies
17h13m

I'm researching the Minuteman II's computer, the Autonetics D-37B/C so I figured I'd put a note here in case there is anyone else looking at it.