return to table of content

The Greatest Educational Life Hack: Learning Math Ahead of Time

rodolphoarruda
25 replies
1d4h

If you are native speaker of any language different from English, the greatest educational life hack is to learn English at the earliest time. It opens one's mind and allows access to content and communication at a global level.

M4v3R
10 replies
1d4h

And if you’re a non-English parent but speak English consider talking to your child in English from the very beginning. There are many different ways to approach this, one relatively simple way is to have one parent speak their native language while the other speaks English (called “one parent one language”). Even if your pronunciation isn’t perfect it will still yield very good results.

Source: I’m a parent of a 3yo who now understands speaks both English and Polish. Me and my wife are Polish and only I speak English. Apart from speaking we also use English audio in all TV content she watches and buy books that contains both English and Polish text.

Edit: as pointed out below I should’ve clarified that this applies when you live in a non-English country where your child does not have any other way to learn English (over here you can’t really learn English in schools - not enough hours, plus it starts way too late anyways).

noisy_boy
3 replies
1d3h

And if you’re a non-English parent but speak English consider talking to your child in English from the very beginning.

If you are living in a place where people don't speak your mother tongue but English is spoken everywhere and is the main medium of education, don't do this. The kids will pick-up English anyway because they will be exposed to it for 8 hours daily at school but if you don't speak with them in your mother tongue, they will never pick it up. The older they get, the harder it is. First hand experience.

rtkwe
2 replies
1d2h

They need English at home too, a lot happens in those early years where there's no schooling and it'd be way better to know English well going into school (what ever level that happens to be at) too.

zarzavat
0 replies
22h7m

No, it’s not necessary to speak X at home if you live in an X speaking country, and it may even be harmful: often children will not pick up language Y if only one parent speaks it and the other parent speaks X.

Bilingual children whose parents don’t speak the language of the community at home may learn languages slightly slower but they quickly catch up once they make friends who only speak X.

querez
0 replies
1d1h

My daycare has a lot of non-native people who do not speak the local, native language with their child, at all. Still, all children (age 3, they're usually in daycare since age 1) speak the local language fluidly, thanks to how much they they spend in daycare.

lbrito
3 replies
1d2h

I would say the opposite; talk to your child only in your native language. Kids will learn English by themselves in school anyway, and if they don't learn your language from you, they for sure won't learn it elsewhere.

Source: as a kid I was in that situation, at first my parent spoke only in English with me and I started to forget Portuguese. After my parents realized that they pivoted to speaking Portuguese. I learned English fine at school and never had problems with either languages. Now I'm a parent of a 2yo and 1yo and am speaking Portuguese with both.

M4v3R
1 replies
1d2h

Kids will learn English by themselves in school anyway

If you live in an English speaking country then sure. Over here it’s almost impossible to learn English in school, you only get a few hours per week of English classes.

paganel
0 replies
23h29m

It depends on the kid and on the type of “immersion” (for lack of a better word). I grew up in Romania in the ‘90s, when we had 2 hours of English per week starting with the 5th grade. I turned up fine when it comes to speaking/writing/reading the language, of course that I’ll always carry an accent when speaking it but I don’t care.

Looking back at it, after 3 decades, what helped me learn the language was that immersion I mentioned, i.e. I was watching English TV programs (Cartoon Network, Eurosport, MTV Europe) for a big part of the day, without that I wouldn’t have been able to pick it up so easily.

flyinglizard
0 replies
23h30m

My experience is that it’s very easy to expose kids to English in a non-English country - just let them consume all their entertainment (Netflix, games, books) in English right from the start. You don’t need to do anything special other than that.

rtkwe
0 replies
1d2h

Do be mindful of the kid though. One of my wife's coworkers wanted to teach their kid multiple languages, I think the final count was 4 total (they wanted both the parent's native tongues, German which is where they were going to live after their visas expired in the US and of course English), while living in the US and it just made the kid confused and angry. Granted that's way more than just doing two but it could still back fire with the kid if it's too much.

et-al
0 replies
1d3h

I would clarify this is for parents residing in non-English speaking countries. Because over here in the States folks are doing the opposite: spending thousands a month to send their children to language immersion schools to not speak English.

runiq
5 replies
1d2h

Another reason to learn English ASAP is because the orthography is pants-on-head stupid. Your young self will not have a reference system for just how pants-on-head stupid it is and happily accept it without giving it a second thought.

If you are learning English later in life, you will struggle.

rcbdev
3 replies
1d1h

I'd argue some pants-on-head stupid declinations and arbitrary genders for every noun is a much more compelling reason to learn a language early than orthography.

English is probably one of the dead simplest languages of use to learn later in life.

saagarjha
1 replies
20h30m

Nah, it sucks. Source: native speaker who also knows Spanish and Hindi

galdosdi
0 replies
3h49m

Idk. Native speakers are biased. I would trust someone who learned BOTH the languages they are comparing as a second language most. Even then they may have different views depending on what languages they already knew prior (eg, portuguese is a lot easier for a spanish speaker than a mandarin speaker)

My dad (who learned English as a second language after his native Spanish, and also learned Portuguese and Latin, don't recall if he knew any others) used to claim English was one of the easiest languages. I don't recall his reasoning but I think it might have been because the rules (other than spelling lol) were simple and forgiving.

And I've met people who felt the opposite. Idk.

dotnet00
0 replies
22h23m

It helps that since English is the lingua franca, people tend to be kind of used to interacting with those who don't speak it perfectly. Plus even those who don't functionally speak it likely know enough words to convey things in a pinch through either loan words or osmosis through media.

euroderf
0 replies
21h26m

Agreed. In some ways English is aggressively stupid and hostile to learners.

In purely intellectual terms, know thy enemy.

qsort
5 replies
1d4h

As a non-native English speaker, this. Native English speakers are reluctant to give this advice, but it's the lingua franca of any field that matters. Not being able to communicate effectively will definitely be a blocker.

smokel
4 replies
1d3h

Using the term "lingua franca" for English demonstrates, twice, that this is only a temporary phenomenon.

umanwizard
0 replies
1d

English will almost surely still be the dominant world language for as long as any of us is alive.

qsort
0 replies
1d3h

Since Eve ate that apple pretty much everything is a "temporary phenomenon".

ptmcc
0 replies
1d1h

Ok, yes, and? English is the dominant language now and for the foreseeable future. Some day that may change but it won't be overnight.

galdosdi
0 replies
3h57m

Someday, when the global language is no longer English but some other language, the new global language will still be full of fossilized English phrases, just as English today is full of fossilized French and Latin phrases.

There is absolutely nothing going on in the world to suggest that happen in the foreseeable future though. There is no competition, and it's inherently hard to change like any standard due to chicken-and-egg, so it tends to only happen when the entire world system is completely upheaved, to the point of the old world being a small part of the new world, and to a degree far greater than the possibilities of today. The stuff going on in the world today is mild comparatively.

In particular, politcal falls of the sponsoring empire don't directly lead to much change here, actually. Latin kept being the language used throughout Europe centuries after the Roman state was gone and buried in the west. Scholars were still writing in Latin in the 1600s. Within my parents' lifetime, Catholic mass was still said in Latin.

gwervc
1 replies
1d3h

Heck no, I'd rather protect my (future) kids from a lot of ideas spreading in the English speaking sphere until they reached some given age. There's enough cultural, scientific and entertainment content in French and Chinese to fill one's mind until adolescence.

rcbdev
0 replies
1d1h

This.

Most money is spent in manipulating English media. Only fractions for other languages. It makes a difference.

supertofu
22 replies
1d3h

I was a late bloomer in almost every arena of my life. Developing social skills, having relationships, developing an identity independent of my family, etc. I'm also a late bloomer to mathematics.

I'm in my 30s and getting a bachelor's degree in Math now after a lifetime of math-phobia. Math was my worst subject because it never came easily or naturally to me, and so I assumed I must have been innately incapable of it. I didn't take a single math class during my first bachelor's degree.

I sure wish I could have learned math properly earlier in life, but my point with this comment is that it is never too late to learn math.

Learning mathematics "late" over the last couple of years has enriched my life in so many ways. Learning to write proofs has brought a sense of organization and calm to many other areas of my life. Complex problems and challenges in life feel so much more approachable, because I am much more skilled now in breaking down tasks to manageable components. I can see now how mathematics has influenced programming languages and computer science, and every time I can identify the mathematical underpinning of some program I use or write, I feel like I am peering into the heart of the universe.

Learning math early is a great hack, but so is learning math late :)

chikenf00t
14 replies
1d3h

How were you able to learn math later in life? I'm terrible at math and I know it causes my work to suffer.

srcreigh
2 replies
14h15m

The core of math, as GP mentioned, is learning proofs.

I would go as far as to say that most high school “math” and “math” taught in many college courses is borderline irrelevant.

It’s like learning how to paint by memorizing names of colors. Learning to fix a car by reading parts list.

Painters can tell you about colors and mechanics parts but you don’t become like them by making those things your goal.

The only way to learn math is to learn proofs rigorously.

Calculus isn’t math, it’s just calculus. Algebra, linear algebra, they’re not math. Any “math” without rigorous definitions and theorems with proofs for each one isn’t math. (memorizing names of colors isn’t being a painter)

This book seems a good start. This is not advanced math. It’s an introduction to math- if you don’t know this you don’t know math. https://richardhammack.github.io/BookOfProof/Main.pdf#page=8

Stuff like what’s in this book is taught starting in week 1 for Waterloo computer science degree.

It’s life changing knowledge because you can use math to understand almost anything.

MichaelRo
0 replies
43m

The core of math, as GP mentioned, is learning proofs.

Well it may be the core but it's not the purpose. As an engineer and later quant I actually use math for practical purposes in everyday life. It wasn't like this in the beginning, I remember primary school was a torment of being fed math olympiad-style problems and hating it. Then somewhere in gymnasium I discovered electronics and everything changed. Math became not just useful but inevitable and from then on learning of math for my own purposes went hand in hand with practical applications in electronics, from simple equations to matrices to differential equations, numeric calculus etc.

Of course there's also always the "standard math" (for passing the SAT/baccalauréat) and entering the good schools, that's inevitable. One can say that "Learning Math Ahead of (the vast majority of) Others" is the way to get ahead :)

Jensson
0 replies
13h28m

The core of math, as GP mentioned, is learning proofs.

That is the midpoint, the core goal of math is getting enough intuition that facts are obvious, the proofs are just a guide to get you there.

This means you shouldn't study proofs, you should study facts, the proofs are just an example of how to support that fact, you can prove things in many different ways and also many things can be constructed in many different ways and still have the same properties. All of that is much easier when you think in terms of facts instead of proofs.

If you struggle with proving something then you don't understand it. If you memorize a proof for it, then you still don't understand it. The right path to take is to build understanding and then the proofs comes on their on.

moralestapia
2 replies
1d2h

My two cents.

Math it's way easier than you think it is, it greatly depends on how you approach it. I really like the style of Robert Ghrist videos on YouTube.

A great tutor/video goes a long way. I wish I could share some resources but am a bit outdated on that.

The overall idea is that some people can explain math concepts in a very clear and straightforward way, while some others will write up a bunch of symbols and let you figure them out. Avoid the latter. As a note, those are usually the lowest performers in academia, lol.

RealityVoid
1 replies
1d1h

You learn math best by doing math. Sure, good explanations help, but sometimes dry rigorous ones are preferable since it asks you to grapple with the subject.

moralestapia
0 replies
1d1h

sometimes dry rigorous ones are preferable

My experience with the comments in this thread, the overwhelming majority of people I know IRL and the widespread sentiment that "Math is hard" does not seem to reflect that.

grepLeigh
1 replies
1d2h

Similar to the OP, I had a lot of anxiety around math and academic performance. I dropped out of college at 18 and the highest math class I took was in high school (pre-calc), which I almost failed.

At age 33, I enrolled in community college and took Calc I-III, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. The community college hosts weekly "math jams" and offers free 1:1 tutoring.

I'm currently taking a Discrete Math and Probability class at UC Berkeley for fun this summer (CS70), which would have seemed absurd just a few years ago. The community college system in California is extraordinary; I'm glad I got to experience it first-hand.

Loughla
0 replies
1d1h

Describe the math jams, if you would please. Is this just open tutoring labs for all areas of math? Or is it something different?

supertofu
0 replies
3h55m

It would be a good idea to investigate the belief you have that you are "terrible at math". What does that mean, exactly? Are you bad at computation? Do you forget rules? Are there gaps in your knowledge which are preventing you from accumulating more advanced concepts?

Learning math is like learning any natural language. For example, I'm "bad at Russian" because I have devoted all of 6 hours in my life to learning Russian and there are profound gaps in my understanding of Russian writing and grammar.

But I don't believe I am intrinsically incapable of learning Russian. The reality is that I've simply not put the effort into it.

It's truly the same with math. I am personally quite bad at computation by hand. It's exhausting, I often make careless errors, and I find computational problems by hand to be very boring. But that doesn't mean I'm bad at math! I've simply not invested much effort into improving my skill at computation by hand. I'm not terrible at proofs, for example; and the reason for this is that I find them interesting, and have devoted extra time and effort into learning how to write them. The heart of math isn't computation (which I'm not strong at), but proof and abstraction (which I am strong at, only because abstraction is interesting to me).

So really investigate your belief system regarding your capacity for mathematics. It's unlikely you are innately bad at it. Maybe you have knowledge gaps or you, like me, are not innately skilled at computation. But there are strategies you can employ to improve both.

supertofu
0 replies
5h52m

I went back to university. I wouldn't have had the motivation to do this outside of the structured environment of academia and, critically, the pressure of exams and grades that come with school. A huge amount of my motivation comes from the fear of "getting a bad grade". Without the fear of a bad grade, I definitely would have given up learning math as soon as I got bored.

nextos
0 replies
23h38m

You can start simple. Read Basic Mathematics by Serge Lang and do all exercises. Solutions are included. That book basically covers all mathematics up to junior high in a rigorous but approachable fashion. Serge Lang was a great mathematician. Then you move to logic, calculus, linear algebra and probability. Afterwards, focus on more specific areas that interest you.

Springer Undergraduate Texts in Mathematics and Dover have lots of elegant and concise textbooks that can help you. At the beginning, the key is to move slowly and build some solid foundations.

dash2
0 replies
8h23m

I burnt my maths books at 16 and didn't do any math after that until I was 30. Then I took Real Analysis as part of a PhD course. I was more mature, and I discovered I enjoyed the different approach. So (a) don't assume you haven't changed and (b) find the parts of math you like best, and start there.

2snakes
0 replies
1d3h

I am planning to use Math Academy after my Master's degree. I did a beta and it was awesome, just wish I had taken more notes.

credit_guy
1 replies
7h50m

it is never too late to learn math.

Unfortunately your experience is atypical. I have seen a few people trying to learn math late(ish) in life, but I haven’t seen a single one succeeding. I am not claiming it is impossible, because I thing everything is possible, it’s just that I haven’t seen it done.

Congrats to you for beating the odds. It is quite a singular achievement.

supertofu
0 replies
6h22m

Did those people go to university or try to learn on their own? I absolutely would not have been able to learn upper mathematics outside of the structure (and intrinsic pressure!) of an academic environment. I would never have had the motivation or persistence on my own. Even within an academic system, generating the motivation to persist is a daily struggle, but a lot of my identity is around "being a good student", so that really works in my favor to counteract the difficulty of being a non-traditional student.

This learning adventure has been very, very hard. But it is possible.

Because if I can do it, seriously anyone motivated can. I was the epitome of "bad math student".

My precalc teacher in high school actually discouraged me from going on to calculus (I took his advice and took trig, not calculus, in senior year of high school), and I decided during that meeting that I would never take a math class again.

As an adult, I really take umbrage with that lack of faith. I wish someone had told me that math is not any harder than learning a new language (something I was very good at).

It would have given me courage and helped me see math as not some kind of untouchable, elite pursuit, but just a learnable skill set like any other.

xtiansimon
0 replies
6h22m

“…it is never too late to learn math.”

Thank you for sharing your experience. I feel the same.

I tried to

wheelinsupial
0 replies
4h41m

If you don’t mind sharing, I’m curious what your first degree was in and what you think you got out of studying that subject?

kensai
0 replies
22h54m

Thank you for this post. I am in my 40s and have a similar approach.

chongli
0 replies
23h11m

I am rooting for you! I just completed a Bachelor's of Mathematics in December before my 40th birthday this year. I am so glad to hear about the effects you're feeling as you learn. I too experienced a deep sense of calm and confidence as I learned to write proofs. Surprisingly, none of my younger classmates agreed! So I chalked it up to being older and more mature in general.

Now I feel vastly more mature than I did before I began my degree! I have that same belief and confidence that no problem I face is unsolvable. I've also discovered a much deeper love of learning itself, and a desire to continue studying long into the future, and that interest includes but is not limited to mathematics! I want to have many different hobbies and learn all about how the world works.

bitwize
0 replies
22h14m

Math anxiety... it's a real thing. My wife has a brilliant level of intelligence but refused to approach the higher levels of math. Not out of lack of capability... just fear. She says things like "Math should have numbers in it, but no letters. I'm not about the kind of math with letters in it." And for example, she never completed her psych degree because a statistics course was required to complete it and she didn't want to take it.

It's like a fat person going to the gym for the first time. But once they start getting into the habit of working out and seeing the improvements, the anxiety goes away.

Anyway, congrats on overcoming your math anxiety.

TuringNYC
21 replies
1d4h

If you go to any of the wealthy or upper-middle-class suburbs, especially those with large immigrant populations, you'll see half the students secretly doing this, whether it is via Kumon or RSM or something else.

In many ways it skews the ratings of the schools because they can be lazy and not teach as well...but still show great school average scores, since so many kids are already enriching externally. Before you know, the school is just a motion and the real learning is at home. I suppose it is idealistic to think teachers "should" teach well, of course, since in reality not all do.

lupire
5 replies
1d4h

It's not secret. It's out in the open and people who don't do it are looked at with scorn or dismissal.

TuringNYC
3 replies
1d3h

> It's not secret. It's out in the open and people who don't do it are looked at with scorn or dismissal.

Amongst the participants, it isnt secret -- you see all the other participants at the center weekly, or more. I think a lot of it is a class thing that runs side by side.

For the outsiders, it is a secret. I was part of a group in K12 that didnt even always have consistent nutrition. The Kumon kids were a strange breed -- folks who had money to "splurge" on "private" education.

kjkjadksj
1 replies
1d2h

All the kids I knew in those programs hated it. Last thing they wanted to do after school was more school. They wanted to play games or sports but their parents decided being an A student in elementary school is better than any potential social or physical development.

DowagerDave
0 replies
21h15m

Western society loves to make every kid "special" either in their challenges or abilities. We seem to forget that every kid IS special, in the sense they are diverse, inconsistent, immature and range dramatically across different types of skills & abilities. If you're a middle-class or higher new parent in the West, let me give you my parenting book for free: chill the fuck out.

galdosdi
0 replies
3h36m

Well, it could also be priorities, not extra money to splurge. Private school costs way more. Kumon OTOH may be just a couple hundred a month, modest enough even a working class person can easily afford by bucking up and treating their childs' education as higher priority than having cable or being able to ever eat out, or not having to work a second job on saturday mornings.

This is how I was raised and how my family went from sugar cane peasant farmers to school teachers in one generation and from school teachers to software engineers and doctors in just one more. From 6th grade dropouts to high school degrees in one generation, and from there to masters degree in one more.

Culture matters. Values matter.

There was a time in my young life when my parents slept on the couch so the kids could have a bedroom, so we could live in a tiny place so we could pay less rent and afford to live in a really really good public school district where many kids' parents were ivy league college professors.

It paid off. It usually does. Culture. Matters.

tptacek
0 replies
1d

I put my kids through school (they're both out of college now) in an upper class Chicagoland suburb and this was definitely not the case.

I'd be a little careful with venue effects on a discussion like this: this is a group of people that have, as a cohort, a particular fixation on academic and especially mathematics status signals.

kjkjadksj
4 replies
1d2h

True for college math too. I took calculus for the first time in my life in college. Half the class had it in high school, half of those students took AP calc. Exams were so brutal for those of us taking it for the first time especially. Nothing could have prepared me for them. The lecturer would schedule a two hour block outside of class and the exam was 7 very challenging questions. Most of us would not finish before the 2 hours were up. Class averages were in the 50% range. I took my C and moved on with my life never needing to do calculus by hand ever again.

rawgabbit
3 replies
1d1h

My son did "Business Calculus" at a large state university. I have a masters in science and had taken many quite difficult math courses in my day. I looked at what he was asked to do and saw his exam papers. Needless to say "Business Calculus" had little to do with business and a lot to do with making math as difficult as possible. The class average was a C and I believe many of the students had taken AP calculus in high school. It was one of the courses whose purpose was not to teach but to prop up the university-industrial complex.

EDIT. Below is an example (not from his instructor but the same material). Remember this is for "business calculus". It just seems like silly math tricks to me. https://people.tamu.edu/~jdkim/math142fall2019/math142week11...

Acrobatic_Road
2 replies
1d

just glancing over this pdf it doesn't seem so bad. The first couple of problems are just integrations with some very obvious u-substitutions.

gowld
1 replies
18h32m

That's what parent said: "silly math tricks" that will never, ever be relevant in business after 1930, now that we have calculators.

galdosdi
0 replies
3h45m

That's... totally normal calculus curriculum, and is pretty elementary, not advanced.

It's true you won't do a symbolic integration ever again, but practice learning stuff like that will serve them well when they're learning intricate tax code rules and principles of managerial finance, cash flow, rates of return etc.

I mean, now that I say all that, they'd probably be best served by just jumping into the complex business and finance math and skipping symbolic integration, once they totally understand integration conceptually. But if they don't, they're still getting good practice out of it, especially if they find it challenging. That means they are learning problem solving techniques they didn't know, and need to know.

The only way you're right and it's a waste of time is if they find it easy.

gjvc
2 replies
1d4h

What is the preferred choice between Kumon and Russian School of Mathematics?

dh2022
1 replies
1d1h

I sent my son to both of them and I prefer RSM by far. Kumon to me was rote learning - lots of very similar problems. My son did not last even the first semester.

My son then attended RSM from first grade. RSM instruction started from problems like "there are 3 birds on a branch. 1 bird leaves. how many birds are now on the branch" and progressed onward. By grade 7 he is learning logarithms and, at a very basic introductory level, abstract concepts such as function

(by function I mean the real definition of a function, not the easy f(x) = 2 x + 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_(mathematics))

gowld
0 replies
18h30m

That's the same as Kumon and regular school, but a faster pace than regular school. (Kumon is self-paced.)

conductr
2 replies
1d2h

Education is a part of culture. The American culture is one that doesn't actually value education. It's one of shortcuts and minimum effort and coasting by checking the boxes along the way to a decent enough paying job, or so we hope. We place value on our social lives much more so. Eg. popularity, sports, fraternities, "the college experience", etc

DowagerDave
1 replies
21h19m

Sure there are cases as you describe, but painting the entire American culture wrt education with your very wide brush is unfair and incorrect. It's also soundly refuted by the global demand for American education, and historic performance.

galdosdi
0 replies
3h41m

A certain large and loud sector of American culture hates education. Another smaller sector likes it. You foreigners mostly interact with the smaller sector that likes it, which is no coincidence, because education pulls you up, so what you see is the top of society. In America, our best is superior to the best in other places, but our average is far below the world average.

If you are growing up as an average working class or lower middle class American, the education-hating culture is hard to escape except in a small number of places.

If you are growing up upper middle class, your family can just avoid those problems by living in a nice suburb where everyone values education.

Believe me, I'm knee deep in this dilemma right now. You can inculcate certain values as parents, but your kids WILL absorb the culture from the kids around them too to some degree.

tbihl
0 replies
16h27m

In many ways it skews the ratings of the schools because they can be lazy and not teach as well...but still show great school average scores, since so many kids are already enriching externally.

If you didn't already know, SES is the rating (with relevant cultural differences that override wealth). Everything about the school is statistical noise by comparison.

sharadov
0 replies
1d2h

I send my kids to Singapore Math, because the math curriculum and how they teach math is lacking - it's superficial, they gloss over the concepts. In schools my kids look at a worked example, then solve problems that very closely follow that example, repeating all the same steps with different numbers. In Singapore math, students must think through the concepts and apply them in new ways from the very start.

hintymad
0 replies
21h25m

via Kumon or RSM or something else.

My kids use Kumon and RSM too, only because what their school covers are pathetic. The content may be okay, but the teachers certainly didn't give good enough homework to help the kids deeply understand the math concepts and to get valuable problem-solving skills.

That we rely on Kumon and RSM says a lot the abysmal state of the education quality in the US. Case in point, I would not need Kumon or RSM at all when I grew up, as my school covered way more and way deeper math. Note the US is still the best country for the top students and those who struggled with academics. It sucks only for the majority -- the students in the middle like me. They could've got trained hard, yet the school squandered the opportunity.

alephnerd
0 replies
1d4h

any of the wealthy or upper-middle-class suburbs

Working class too if you're Asian American.

Asian American kids in SF public schools and the closest suburbs (eg. Daly City, SSF) skewed working class but the parents would also push their kids to attend Kumon or cram schools.

Same story in working class Asian neighborhoods of SoCal and Boston like SGV or Quincy+Malden respectively.

CrazyStat
16 replies
1d5h

I’m going to push back on the advice to learn higher grade math rather than competition math, as I feel the author is ignoring an important skill that competition math helps develop. They allude it in passing:

A student can wrestle with a competition problem for long periods of time, and all the teacher needs to do is give a hint once in a while and check the student’s work once they claim to have solved the problem.

Wrestling with a problem for long periods of time is not just a convenience for the teacher, it is a skill that will serve students well for decades to come. Sitting with a problem that you don’t know how to solve for hours, trying various approaches, failing and failing and trying again, is a life skill that learning calculus two years early won’t teach you.

Many of the tactics used in competition problems are also useful in general quantitative situations: identifying symmetries, invariant quantities, properties that can only increase under perturbations.

alephnerd
4 replies
1d4h

I did competition math in middle and high school, and the only reason I was able to build the base needed to do decently in the AMC, AIME, and CEMC was because I was introduced to various concepts in math much earlier than when American or Canadian curricula would introduce them.

Competition math becomes a zero sum game when you are competing with students who have both built strong fundamentals AND then concentrated on technique and problem solving.

You can't run if you can't walk.

failing and failing and trying again, is a life skill that learning calculus two years early won’t teach you

But learning Calc for 2 years, and getting a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam means you can take 2 additional courses in college or graduate early.

Many of the tactics used in competition problems are also useful in general quantitative situations

Agreed. But at the end of the day, the kids getting into AIME or USAMCO were already doing high school or even college level math by 9th grade

bee_rider
2 replies
1d3h

I actually did learn how to run before I learned how to walk. It caused my parents all sorts of stress. I guess, though, there’s room to quibble about where controlled falling forward is really running.

Anyway, it seems like a shame that there’s a problem solving strategy beyond fundamentals for competitive math. What makes the puzzles in the game different from the sort of typical math somebody in STEM might do?

zozbot234
1 replies
1d2h

Walking is just as much "controlled falling forward" as running is, it's just slower.

gowld
0 replies
18h34m

No it isn't. When walking, you can revert mid-step. It's not a dynamic movement, but running is, leaving you temporaily airborne.

CrazyStat
0 replies
1d3h

You don't have to "do decently" or worry about beating students who are already doing college level math, though. You can just do it for "fun" (and learning value). It may be a zero sum game if the outcome you're concerned with is beating other people, but that doesn't need to be the objective.

conductr
3 replies
1d2h

Good advice but not good general advice. This will benefit some but many more people will get frustrated and learn to dislike math.

CrazyStat
1 replies
1d1h

This is not my experience. If they see the task as “solving the problem is success and anything else is failure,” like they might be used to from most school math classes, sure. If you set up the context properly my experience is that most kids enjoy working on hard math puzzles.

conductr
0 replies
1d1h

Perhaps on basic math with younger kids but I expect this will hit a wall at a certain level. Or, the audience of kids doing this is already a skewed/biased sample of kids that just love math (or it's parent driven)

colonwqbang
0 replies
21h8m

It seems that OP assumes you are already targeting a career where maths will be useful to you. If so, I disagree. Everything in school becomes much more fun when you understand what you're doing.

qsort
2 replies
1d4h

Conflict of interest since I was very much into competition math in high school, but I definitely agree that at the HS level it's just about the best thing you can do. It develops your mathematical maturity in ways that simply front-loading calculus or linear algebra won't. A LOT of competition alumni go on to become great academics or successful professionals.

And just by the way: competition math is definitely "higher math" in a lot of cases. To be competitive at a decent level you have to know stuff like "real" algebra (groups, fields, etc., stuff like Burnside's lemma is pretty much table stakes), vectors, barycentric coordinates and so on for geometry problems, how to handle recursion for combinatorics, generating functions etc. It's by no means only silly tricks.

gowld
1 replies
18h37m

By those parameters, "decent level" refers to the harder questions on USAMO/IMO... the top 100 in USA in a given grade level.

Burnside's lemma is a silly trick, in the sense that it's easy to memorize without knowing why it's true.

qsort
0 replies
12h32m

By those parameters, "decent level" refers to the harder questions on USAMO/IMO... the top 100 in USA in a given grade level.

No, those are table stakes. To reach that level you have to know the theory and be good at the game.

Burnside's lemma is a silly trick, in the sense that it's easy to memorize without knowing why it's true.

By that standard pretty much 100% of mathematical education is silly tricks unless you are literally getting a PhD in pure math.

Calculus without real analysis? Silly trick! Statistics without measure theory? Silly trick! Learning how to code without an in-depth understanding of computability theory? Silly trick!

Applying Burnside's lemma in a competition setting requires at a minimum a fairly sophisticated understanding of what is a group action and an orbit, which is definitely "real math". The broader point is that competition math isn't some kind of parallel universe where you learn "fake math" that doesn't exist in the real world. You learn the real thing -- perhaps less rigorously than in a university course, but the real thing nonetheless.

zozbot234
1 replies
1d2h

Wrestling with a problem for long periods of time is not just a convenience for the teacher, it is a skill that will serve students well for decades to come.

And one of the best ways of developing that skill is... learning higher-level math. This can also include 'competition math' topics of course, but they should be approached as self-contained subjects of their own, not just as a bundle of disconnected "tricks" to be applied solely in a competition- or puzzle-solving context.

CrazyStat
0 replies
1d2h

Depending on how the course is set up, maybe. Most math courses are not set up to make students wrestle with problems for extended periods of time, even through University level.

I took courses in topology and number theory in undergrad that were set up this way—the professor did almost no lecturing; we were given a series of results to prove and expected to wrestle with them ourselves (mostly alone as homework). Once you thought you had a proof you presented it to the class. But this is very atypical. Your typical calculus or differential equations or linear algebra course does not develop this skill.

insane_dreamer
1 replies
20h30m

Sitting with a problem that you don’t know how to solve for __hours__

my child is very good at math, able to grasp advanced concepts quickly, years ahead of his school curriculum, etc.

there is __0%__ chance I could get him to do the above for __hours__

CrazyStat
0 replies
17h41m

You have to work up to it, of course. I don't know how old your child is, but when I was in elementary school I also probably could not have focused on a problem for hours. When I was in middle school I had a long (45 minutes) and boring bus ride and would often spend the entire ride thinking about some problem I was trying to solve. By the time I was in university I could sit and think about a problem for 3 hours (the length of one session of the Putnam exam) without much trouble.

And of course, you (usually) don't have to literally sit! I spent many lunch breaks in school pacing around thinking about problems.

trte9343r4
9 replies
1d5h

Learning math early guards you against numerous academic risks and opens all kinds of doors to career opportunities.

Learning math, just so you can learn it again is quite pointless!

Much better hack is to skip academia completely, and go self educated. No debt, no pointless extra classes, no risk of being misaccused, no politics! You can even move to cheaper country, with nice weather, to have better environment for studying!

xattt
8 replies
1d5h

You’re oddly specific so I assume you’re speaking to your experience, but your case would be survivor bias.

Academia does pander to the masses, and it provides a path to take a person off the street and turn them into a somewhat of a knowledge expert in a range of disciplines.

You also hope that your nurse practitioner, physician or surgeon didn’t take a self-taught path.

beardedwizard
4 replies
1d4h

But a physician or surgeon needs a license to practice, so it's not really a valid comparison.

However, I would love to have a doctor who was so passionate about it they taught themselves before going to school.

skhunted
2 replies
1d4h

In the U.S. getting that license requires med school. Almost no one is capable of learning advanced topics on their own unless they have already been trained to learn an advanced topic. It’s interesting to see the number of comments talking as if self learning is easy or doable for any but a small percent of the population.

Self learning a topic is largely an ability of those who have been taught advanced knowledge in some area.

lanstin
1 replies
1d2h

Also the young with relatively less to do. When I was little, I started reading calculus books in about 4th grade; I couldn't understand them much but with a few years of trying I finally mostly got it at a conceptual level (tho I didn't do the homeworks till I took it in school; but by then it seemed to be the easiest subject of all). I also read this cool book "Metamathematics" by Kleene and then wrote (in MS Basic for the Ohio Scientific C1P, using computed gosubs) a recursive descent parser for numerical math equations, so I could type in like "i ^ (1/i)" (I only had +,-,x,/ and ^ but they all took all complex numbers; I might have had ln as well? I could only implement functions where I could figure out how to evaluate them, which excluded cos and sin unless I used exp(theta i pi) = cos(theta pi) + i sin (theta pi) and see what it was as a complex number. It wasn't ground breaking, but it was self-taught (and I could rewrite that program to this day pretty quickly).

But as a grown-up, it's more efficient to get help learning hard things. And some things are harder than others. I think you can learn calculus on your own, and certainly computability theory, and point set topology, but learning finite-group theory, which has a lot of numeric details, or measure theory at a really solid level, would be getting harder. Still doable if you have the inner drive, but lot more efficient to take grad level classes where you turn in homework. Also doing a lot of homework does give you a sort of muscle memory "a function is continuous iff the inverse image of open sets are open".

I wouldn't tell everyone to become a professor, but I'd certainly recommend US grad level classes as an extremely efficient way to learn a lot.

skhunted
0 replies
1d1h

You are not anywhere near the average in learning ability. Your experience is as an outlier.

epcoa
0 replies
17h28m

There’s really not so much in medicine you can teach yourself outside of the second half of medical school and residency. That is the real training — on the job.

Sure you can get a head start on some preclinical subjects or may study them as part of an undergrad, but that isn’t the “hard” part. You simply can’t teach yourself to be a doctor, since the job is so intimately tied to a complex setting you must participate in, and there’s no Linux kernel or GitHub equivalent.

trte9343r4
2 replies
1d4h

Academia wasted 5 years of my life.

provides a path to take a person off the street and turn them into

That was true maybe 40 years ago. Today students are asking for debt forgiveness! Academia ruins people financially for decades!

somewhat of a knowledge expert in a range of disciplines.

University graduates are pretty much useless in practical disciplines. They need years of additional training to become employable.

You also hope that your nurse practitioner, physician or surgeon didn’t take a self-taught path

Medical professionals have several years of extra training in hospitals. They have to "self study"!

lanstin
0 replies
1d2h

Residency isn't independent study, it's pretty tightly directed by the hierarchy.

And I'd hire a math major with limited software experience over a boot camp or self-taught person that only knows code any day. In fact, I'd take a math major over most people with MS in CompSci. They know how to learn very difficult stuff, and didn't do it in an environment that is mostly people wanting to be highly paid, but mostly people that have a love of complicated but beautiful abstract structures (hence less weird resume lying and so on; also, tends to be a bit of a salary arbitrage opportunity). (Hiring for experienced people is of course a different problem.)

Of course, trying for a professor job in the US is very likely to a difficult career path; I'm taking some math classes just for fun and the professors are usually grading our papers at insane hours, 3 am and then office hours at 9 am). I could not have done that much work and been a good parent.

But academia is great training. One of the best project managers I've worked with had a PhD in Anglo-Saxon english; her dissertation was on masculinity in the court of the Anglo-Saxon king (or something, I've not worked with her in a long time); surprisingly relevant to trying to get the mostly male dev teams to coordinate to finish projects when she didin't have the feudal power of the technical managers, just the soft power of the travelling minstral.

Suppafly
0 replies
1d2h

Academia wasted 5 years of my life.

Nah, you wasted 5 years of your life.

factorymoo
8 replies
1d2h

I went to the most prestigious high school in France. The top 2 students in my maths class shared one thing in common: they would study the curriculum the summer before.

I did it one summer, and while I was nowhere near as good as them - something magical happened: even though I hadn't understood all the concepts, my ability to understand the concepts during the class went way up. It was easier to follow what the teacher was saying since no concept was totally new to my mind.

raybb
3 replies
1d1h

Did that make it feel more or less boring?

factorymoo
0 replies
1d1h

To me less boring. I used to struggle to understand new concepts as they were presented. That year though, I was able to follow what the teacher was saying "live", ask interesting questions to deepen my knowledge.

exe34
0 replies
1d1h

It was like that with physics for me in high school. At ages 11-13 we learnt a bunch of stuff, which nobody except I paid any attention to, and then we had to do it all again, exactly the same stuff, for ages 14-15 to prepare for GCSEs. I was horribly bored, but at one point I was lucky enough that the teacher just gave me A-level and then early uni stuff to figure out, so that kept me busy. then first year of uni was horribly boring again, which led me to be over-confident, and didn't do much work in second year, but thankfully I managed to pick up the slack in 3rd and 4th year of uni.

djeastm
0 replies
1d1h

It'd be what you made it. I went back for a CS degree long after having coded for years and there were certainly things I would have had to sit around and wait for others to catch up on if I let it. But instead I always pushed myself to build much more sophisticated versions of the basic things we were learning and I also tutored, which is where it really becomes not boring, because you get to see how other people learn things in different ways, which broadens your own perspective, as well.

So basically I'm just trying to say it's up to you to make things not boring

golergka
1 replies
19h28m

I went to math high school which was the most prestigious one in Russia at the time. Most of math class graduates would go to study math at the uni, and for the first year would be far ahead of their coursemates — but then would be hit by the sudden need to actually study the material and prepare for the exams like a wall of bricks.

gowld
0 replies
18h39m

In other words, the university was terrible at pacing the material, and the high school could only salvage the first year. Very common at university.

petesergeant
0 replies
19h32m

I did a Software Engineering Maths module at Oxford, having barely touched maths in several years. Working through the curriculum first was incredibly useful, because in the lectures everything just melded together, and my brain was already primed

EasyMark
0 replies
14h57m

This is why teachers told us to read the material the night before, because then you have a skeleton to work with and it’s not completely new to you. It did help, but I didn’t always do it :)

WesleyLivesay
7 replies
1d4h

A bit of a sensational title, I would say that Learning to Read as early as possible, then reading well above age level, would be a greater "Educational Life Hack".

dh2022
1 replies
23h38m

But doesn't this reading ability plateau quickly? My 13 years old son reads pretty much as well as I do. I am working with him on SAT tests and there are some things he can improve. But not that much.

As opposed to Math - which keeps going and going well beyond college....

saagarjha
0 replies
20h23m

This is generally because it stops being “reading” and starts becoming “literary analysis” which goes very deep.

yonaguska
0 replies
1d3h

My superpower is that I learned to read at a very young age. It allowed me to find some modicum of success despite a lifetime of undiagnosed adhd. If I hadn't learned how to read early, and thus learned how to read fast- I doubt I would have ever gotten to a point of enjoying reading.

supertofu
0 replies
1d3h

Most unfortunately, not every child will even have access to this unarguably beneficial life hack.

I learned to read early because my immigrant mom read to me in her non-native language every single night, and that's because she came from a culture that lauds education.

I wish every child was lucky enough to have a parent like this, but so many kids only get their first exposure to education in public school.

bee_rider
0 replies
1d3h

Learning to read as an educational lifehack suffers from a couple issues with the target audience.

alephnerd
0 replies
1d4h

They're both outcomes of the same action - parental interest in education.

Success in early learning is heavily correlated to how invested your parents are in their kid's education.

It's not a money thing (as plenty of us 1.5 gen Asian American kids can attest to)

CrazyStat
0 replies
1d3h

The author works at a math education company, so the focus on math is understandable.

1970-01-01
7 replies
1d2h

The greatest failure of our time is that there isn't a viral, ad-free website or app for children and teens to just go and learn math on their own. Everything worthwhile requires a credit card, user account, and monthly subscription. Children don't have credit cards, email addresses, and access to the latest iOS device. They do have time and at minimum sporadic Internet access. If we managed to create Wikipedia, we can manage to create a similar site for enjoying and learning math.

zozbot234
1 replies
1d2h

Khan Academy is close enough to what you describe, and it covers K-12 plus some college-level courses. If anything, it's a lot easier to achieve this wrt. math than many other school subjects.

Suppafly
0 replies
1d2h

This. Between Khan Academy and youtube, there isn't really anything stopping a motivated person from learning. Hell you can get graduate level instruction from some of the best university instructors around by using some of the open courseware materials. Granted some people need the rigor of having an instructor assign and grade assignments regularly, but there are no real barriers to the information itself.

jzebedee
1 replies
1d2h

Isn't this the whole premise of Khan Academy?

1970-01-01
0 replies
1d1h

Khan Academy is limited to learning by boring examples (IMHO) in lecture format and does not virally engage a learner with play. It's analogous to a free virtual classroom.

spencerchubb
0 replies
1d2h

plenty of learning resources exist. kids just don't have the motivation or focus. i'm not saying the kids are at fault though. there are a thousand games/apps that are like nicotine.

mensetmanusman
0 replies
21h55m

Start a nonprofit to implement this. What you are suggesting is a lot of work, and it requires an institution to complete and maintain.

grose
4 replies
1d4h

My 4th and 5th grade teachers tricked us into learning algebra by calling it "enigmas" and treating it like a fun puzzle instead of a math problem. It definitely worked on me, I was quite shocked when middle school math was just those puzzles under a different name. Made those classes quite easy though.

zozbot234
1 replies
1d3h

This is done as standard practice in many countries outside the English-speaking world - complex "word problems" are used to gradually introduce algebraic-style reasoning (often involving multiple "steps" as a matter of course) in the earliest grades as part of the study of both arithmetic and what English-speaking schools call "pre-algebra". Teaching proper algebra after that once the students have the proper level of mathematical maturity becomes almost seamless.

1970-01-01
0 replies
1d2h

The way math is taught in the USA is downright disastrous. It's been through several revisions over the last 30 years and still isn't showing average students reaching anywhere near these levels.

lupire
1 replies
1d4h

This is what DragonBox does too.

Kids hate math because teachers and textbook writers hate math, who put no fun into it.

ghostpepper
0 replies
22h7m

It looks like Dragonbox was bought in 2019. It's now called Kahoot! Algebra by Dragonbox and requires accepting a bunch of tracking permissions on the App Store, plus a subscription.

Anyone know an alternative?

fnord77
4 replies
1d4h

And there are places that have or are trying to ban algebra in Jr. High School (e.g. SFUSD)

anthk
0 replies
1d3h

“curricula emphasizing terms like Pythagorean theorem and pi perpetuate a perception that mathematics was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans.”

Damn Chinese, Arabic, Indian and Mesopotamian people, they ruined everything with their Geometry and Algebra.

Oh, wait...

Dear Gutierrez, Science and Math doesn't give a crap about race/ethnics and even less to crybabies as you. And as I say this being a Spaniard, an odd blend between an Iberian, an Atlantic/Mid-European (Goth) and Mediterranean (Who knows, point a huge chunk between Tartesos and Rome) people.

In the Hispanic world (the actual one, not the joke invented in the US) no one gives a shit about the race. It's all about nurture against nature. Since the old times. (Uno no es de donde nace, sino de donde pace) -Lit. one does not belong from where he was born, but where he is lying - - -> Home is where the heart is.

BTW. Latinx -> US creation, not Hispanic. We usually do Science subjects in Spanish AND in English once we reach University/College, thanks. No one it's hurt. Skills on technical English are a must, period.

Black and Latino students here (inmigrants from overseas) do it perfectly fine in Spain. First they study in Spanish, and later in English which is much harder to achieve at the age of 18-20. Stop the ethnic bullshit, please.

Our country invented Algebra, please. European Spaniards learnt it fine from the Moors in ARABIC more than five centuries ago. Later they translated it into Latin and into Castillian Spanish. Are the American children challenged, or what?

You look like the sickos who put "White Only/Colored" labels on everything.

The actual struggle for these children is not the race. It's money and parents being underpaid.

lupire
0 replies
1d4h

That makes it easier to learn ahead.

twic
3 replies
1d4h

Is there anything specific to mathematics about this?

criticas
1 replies
1d4h

No, I had the same strategy in computer science, foreign language, and elective courses. CS? The first week of the class, I'd read the entire language manual. I wouldn't understand everything, but when a concept was explained in detail, I had a context and baseline familiarity to orient myself.

In foreign language and elective courses (such as history) doing the reading before the lecture meant I could focus on what the lecturer thought was important rather than absorbing new information.

lanstin
0 replies
1d2h

I had a similar strategy as a youth. It definitely makes for a more relaxed education (or gave me a buffer for when the homework becomes really hard and my youthful irresponsibility put me behind).

Now I've gone back to grad school (30 years later) and I also have kids (older but not completely ignorable :) and a job and a wife I am determined to keep happy, so I have to optimize for time, so I'm mostly going into lectures blind except for whatever foreshadowing "motivation" they've done, so it's a constant stream of completely new stuff, but a lot of "wow, that's cool" moments.

mamcx
0 replies
1d4h

I think learning how read and write is a better fit.

Math, despite what some say, is not that fundamental, but reading and writing well is(and then helps to get math and others).

fhub
3 replies
1d2h

Greatest Educational Life Hack is getting your children to love going to school.

javier123454321
0 replies
23h45m

Love learning, not necessarily love going to school.

hnthrowaway0328
0 replies
1d2h

This.

euroderf
0 replies
21h14m

I always refer to my 4yo's daycare as "going to school". I want him to perceive continuity. Fingers crossed.

criticas
3 replies
1d4h

My wife was a great example of this. She was an undergraduate math major, then went on to get her master's and PhD in engineering. The first year of the master's was largely remedial engineering courses - statics and dynamics, thermodynamics, controls, simple electrical circuits, etc.

I asked if she found them difficult. She quipped, "If you already know the math, it's just nomenclature."

trueismywork
0 replies
1d3h

Love this quote.

supertofu
0 replies
1d3h

Ahh, the very definition of isomorphism :)

Syzygies
0 replies
1d3h

As a sophomore, I took the "barrier" physics intro for my distribution requirement. Sunday night before our first Monday morning exam, I found my professor in a phone book (1970's) and phoned to ask for an extension, explaining that I hadn't started studying. Denied.

That test was just multivariate calculus I'd already aced, with funny names. I got one of the top scores in the class. So I decided to study an extra hour next time, just to be responsible. Oops! I flunked a test that was differential equations with funny names.

I didn't really learn ODE's till Columbia assigned me to teach them as an assistant professor.

secstate
2 replies
1d2h

EDIT: Nevermind, this whole thing is just an add for a tutoring service :(

So, here's my hot take (which probably isn't terribly original): Compulsory school math should end before algebra, and the rest of the curriculum should be taught the same way (or better) to how we teach art or music.

If you need advanced math for your career, teach advanced algebra or calculus as needed. At the very least this will force post-secondary schools to be honest about how prepared students are leaving secondary school. Right now, it "those people's fault" for how poorly prepared for advanced math most kids are.

Basic math literacy is incredibly important. But being able to solve quadratics or discover geometric proofs is colossally unimportant to 98% of humanity and it's importance can usually be determined based on personal interest in a career. Let's be honest with ourselves that most people well and truly will never need advanced math. Exposed kids to it as a fun game or art form, not a tool that they will never use.

Should learning to use a belt sander be an educational requirement to move from 9th to 10th grade? No, no it should not.

j2kun
1 replies
23h48m

Your argument applies to everything. Shakespeare? Biology? Chemistry? Physics? World history? Most careers don't need these either. If you limit an education to what people need for their careers, we should be have barista and tax filing classes.

The only class I'd legitimately believe we should teach is labor organizing/union participation, since every career involves labor.

euroderf
0 replies
21h15m

Some kind of media awareness belongs in here too. Everyone 21st-century is drowning in information. Gotta sort it out. Some kind of DIY life ring.

markus_zhang
2 replies
1d4h

My father (a Mathematician) used to teach Math to me early. But somehow I was not motivated to learn Math myself so every year I got a very good mid-term grade but terrible final grade. He also taught competitive Math to me (the Olympics) but to be frank I was totally uninterested.

This definitely created a lot of tension along the years. He just couldn't understand why people don't like learning Math, and I just couldn't understand why I couldn't watch TV every night. LOL.

lanstin
1 replies
1d2h

You could be my kid writing, but I didn't push too hard; I am still disappointed they didn't take up more math, but each person has their own life to live. They understood negative numbers and square roots in early elementary school and optimized later education to be least effort for the grade, not inner inspired learning for the joy of learning.

markus_zhang
0 replies
1d2h

Yeah different people have different roads. And if someone just doesn't have the inner motivation to crack Math problems, then feeding Math to them, especially in a traditional textbook-homework way, is just going to produce resentment.

My father actually wanted to teach me programming too. But similar to teaching Math, he wanted me to go competitive programming, which I absolutely hated and still hate. If he tried teaching me game programming then it was going to be a completely different story. I eventually taught myself programming decades later. My first language was C++ and my first project was a 2d game engine.

IMO, all those teaching he tried to feed me, not only did not increase my motivation or learning techniques, but decreased them. Throughout my childhood (starting from maybe 9), I absolutely hated summer and winter vacations. While my friends were enjoying, I had to go through TONs of extra-curriculums. I used to practice piano 4+ hours a day (as long as I don't have school), and some other hours for extra homeworks. I absolutely hated that, to the point that I hated playing piano and completely dropped it after actually achieving a lot. My father simply doesn't understand why would a normal human-being hate piano, music and Math, when he couldn't even get them when he was young. I didn't bother to explain.

You were probably not that tough to your children though, so I guess they fared much better.

litver
2 replies
1d4h

The Even Superiorly Greatest and Lovely Educational Life Hack: Learning Latin Ahead of Time

euroderf
0 replies
21h18m

It made French grammar a breeze. (Mostly.)

blowski
0 replies
1d4h

Quicquid latīne dictum sit, altum videtur.

Learn Latin and you can fake your way through so many situations.

floatrock
2 replies
1d4h

I'm just confused by this article. It's basically "Learn a course before you take the course so the course is easy."

Well, yeah, of course.

But this is basically the "draw the rest of the horse" meme.

What about any discussion of how to learn the material in advance, why self-guided learning is better than course-driven learning, or just how to prioritize advanced learning with everything else going on in your life.

Why is this on the front page today?

lupire
0 replies
1d4h

Those details are second order. What's important is the "flipped classroom". Learning isn't done in neat little buckets of time, checking off skills from a punch list. Learning works when it repeats and spirals over years.

This is why hobbiests and apprentices are higher skilled professionals than people with mere educational certifications.

kreetx
0 replies
1d4h

Well, yeah, of course.

It tries to substantiate the ahead-of-time learning with how it will benefit you on a larger scale than a course or even a degree.

proee
1 replies
22h54m

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I've wasted a ton of time in math classes working through way too many academic exercises that have little real world applications. For example, learning a bunch of tricks to solve a differential equation by hand feels like a circus act. Sure it can be done, but only with a limited set of "textbook" equations. When you get into the real world, you'll need to put those equations into a solver like matlab, etc.

It would be nice IMHO to see a more hybrid approach at Universities to teach math and application at the same time. It's strange to send students through YEARS of math classes without strong application. It's like learning music theory without playing an instrument.

Our academic system in general is still modeled after old-school institutions, based on textbook-style learning that all pretty much follow the same recipe. Is it not crazy that we have classrooms in this day and age with 300 students sitting in desks listening to a single professor? It's insane.

We are ripe for an educational system that is truly disruptive - especially with the rise of AI systems.

sarora27
0 replies
22h33m

this was my biggest gripe w/ academic math. Whenever i'd ask my teachers how these concepts are applied in the real world, i'd get a non-answer that showed me a) the teachers themselves have no clue and b) they're hoping you'll just shut up and follow the curriculum.

I agree that we are ripe for an educational system that is truly disruptive. Our current educators are so disconnected from the real world and have no idea how to apply what they teach.

johngossman
1 replies
1d4h

This is basically an ad

lupire
0 replies
1d4h

And an attack on the competitors -- opposing competition math because other vendors got their first and it has a narrower addressable market.

falcor84
1 replies
1d3h

Reading between the lines in TFA, it seems that they're implying that university learning is really bad, and pretty much any other way you can use to learn the subject matter before getting to university will serve you better. There's a long discussion to be had there, but for the sake of argument, let's take that as a given.

Assuming that is true, but that there is still a significant benefit to attending a good university - in terms of connections, social experiences, status etc. - should we maybe strive to decouple the university experience from course enrolment - e.g. make it easier for people who have pre-learned the content, to prove their competency and essentially jump directly into a free-form experience similar to grad school?

kjkjadksj
0 replies
1d1h

While the thesis based freeform option is liable to lead to practically learned mastery, it is perilous. What you might set out to learn and to do might not pan put. You might have to revise your ideas, redesign your studies. You may very well take a lot longer than 4 years through no fault of your own.

It can also feel incredibly demoralizing to be toiling in those trenches. Feeling like you are qualified for the job but you just need to get these damn experiments to finally work so you can actually leave and no longer be impoverished.

DowagerDave
1 replies
21h26m

The argument made here is there are risks learning math when everyone else does, so learn it earlier. Great, but how? Only the very few have the resources and environment to learn non-trivial math early. What does this displace? Is it more important for a kid to learn calculus, piano or a second language? Are younger people capable of learning math in a no-painful way? Why do they have patient, knowledgeable teachers at this level but not later? Math can be hard because of the required discipline and practice - are younger people better positioned to solve this, or worse?

It seems insincere to frame this as math is important, and earlier > later without focusing on what this means, or the opportunity costs. Could we just do a global search & replace on 'math' with 'literature' and end up in the same place?

calf
0 replies
19h15m

I skimmed the article and don't see a section explaining how to properly accelerate for the typical student. Do you just give them good-quality math textbooks for them to work on in there spare time? Or do they mean hire an private tutor?

ziofill
0 replies
1d4h

why stop learning one year ahead?

Ok, I get the principle but learning multiple years worth of university math is starting to sound unrealistic? I understand learning something in advance to have an easier time, but this is almost the same as finishing a degree before starting it.

vecter
0 replies
1d2h

This is simple but so effective. When I was 5 or 6 years old, my mom would sometimes give me one page of simple math problems. They were all basic arithmetic, things like 12+17 or 99+99 or 8x7, etc. I did them and got on with my life. They probably didn't take more than 15-20 minutes. They didn't feel like much because they really weren't. I think any 5 year-old can do them.

I believe that whatever little "edge" that gave me in learning math in school compounded exponentially over the years. I always felt "ahead" of the standard school curriculum, and that created a virtuous feedback cycle of success, which bred confidence, which bred success, and so forth.

Just a little nudge here or there at home can make a big difference.

tptacek
0 replies
1d

This presumes an educational career that benefits from engineering math. It's interesting to me that even a lifetime in computer science doesn't necessarily reward this strategy (it might, it might not, depending on focus areas).

rqtwteye
0 replies
23h49m

Learning ahead definitely helps me a lot. For some reason I am not capable of learning things from scratch in one swoop. I always need to learn things a little, let them somehow settle in my brain for a while, and then go further. I always had trouble in school when things moved linearly.

racl101
0 replies
23h17m

Tried teaching my young nephew about math. He just bashed me in the head with the abacus. Then started crying.

niemandhier
0 replies
1d4h

This is a hack to create people wha are successful in the education system, I wonder if it is the right approach to create educated people.

I work in science and often work with highly skilled people from China and India. Theses people are much better in applied math than I ever was, but somehow my erratic highly derivative style of problem solving is at least as good at getting the job done and I am much better in thinking out of the box than most of them.

matt3210
0 replies
23h51m

I had to lean match for writing programs at 12 and after just a few weeks of trying to make a game that had some higher math, I was leagues ahead of my classmates.

Need is the key here in my opinion. Kids usually don't like math unless there is a need for math for something they do like.

ivanche
0 replies
22h17m

I confirm this! My son is 10, finishing 4th class. We're constantly 6-9 months ahead of his class. I think he once in those 4 years got note 2 (one below highest), every other one was the highest. Vast majority of his math classes look like "oh I know that" or "oh I remember that, just need a 5 min refresher". Thanks to it, he has more time for other subjects. His stress level at school is close to zero.

hintymad
0 replies
1d3h

Higher Math, Not Competition Math

This is very true, especially now. So many families, at least in the competitive places like the Bay Area, push their kids to spend enormous amount of time on AMC, AIME, and etc. Other than viewing competition math as a way for their kids to get into elite universities, they often think that doing competition math as a way to be really good at math and they can cite many examples kids who are good at competition math also would have a bright career. Unfortunately, they got it backwards: kids who are naturally good at maths will like do well in competition math (think about Schulz or Terence Tao), but really not the other way around. For people like me, who have limited talent on maths, focusing on learning higher math and the associated essential problem-solving techniques will have a much higher return on investment.

greenhearth
0 replies
3h7m

"When a middle or high school teacher has a bright math student, and the teacher directs them towards competition math, it’s usually not because that’s the best option for the student. Rather, it’s the best option for the teacher. It gives the student something to do while creating minimal additional work for the teacher."

Kind of a dick statement

graycat
0 replies
11h2m

Yes,

The Greatest Educational Life Hack: Learning Math Ahead of Time (justinmath.com)

worked for me, can work for a lot of people, and is a good idea.

Partly:

(1) One way to win a 100 yard dash is to start running half way to the finish line and have no one object. The US educational system will usually overlook something like that starting half way to the finish line.

(2) Reasons: (a) The system assumes that their teaching is crucial and that no student really can learn on their own, i.e., the student didn't actually start half way to the finish line. (b) The system so wants more good students that they will overlook the evidence that the student was ahead at the start of the class. But, research in math mostly requires working alone directly from original papers, and working from a highly polished text is usually much easier -- so profs learn on their own, and students can too.

(3) Generally in math, independent study can work well. Basically for each lesson, (a) study the text, (b) work most of the exercises, especially the more challenging ones, and check the answers in the back of the text (need a suitable text or just get the book for teachers), and (c) in a quiet room, lean back, relax, and think a little about what the value, purpose, content of the lesson was, say, be able to explain it to someone who never studied math.

(3) So, take calculus in high school. And visit, call, whatever, and see what the popular college calculus texts are, get one or two of those (used can be a lot cheaper), and before college have worked hard on both the high school course and the college text(s). Then in college, right, take calculus, likely from a text have already done well in. So, will likely be one of the best students in the class. Then will get a good reputation that can be valuable.

(4) Will be ahead, so continue this way and stay ahead.

(5) Next math course, say, modern, abstract algebra, i.e., set theory, groups, fields, Galois theory, elementary number theory, maybe a start on linear algebra.

Next, linear algebra, maybe the most important and useful course. Work through a popular text that is relatively easy. Then work carefully through one or two of the classics, e.g., Halmos, Finite Dimensional Vector Spaces.

Likely next, "Baby Rudin", W. Rudin, Principles of Mathematical Analysis, calculus and somewhat more done with depth and precision. See the roles of open and closed sets, closed and bounded sets, i.e., compact sets, continuous functions, the powerful results of continuous functions on compact sets, Fourier series.

Advanced calculus, i.e., partial derivatives and Stokes formula.

Analysis, e.g., the real part of W. Rudin, Real and Complex Analysis, Lebesgue's alternate and nicer way to define integration (in short, partition on the Y axis instead of the X axis), the Fourier integral, Banach space, Hilbert space, the Radon-Nikodym theorem (can be used for grand approaches to information, Bayes Rule, the Neyman-Pearson result in best statistical hypothesis testing, and with von Neumann's proof based just on polynomials is charming, ...).

More, e.g., differential equations, probability, statistics, stochastic processes, optimization, complex analysis, number theory, whatever.

One consequence: Will learn how to write math. Too often people who don't know advertise that they don't know much math.

At some point in business, some of that math might be valuable. E.g., current AI uses steepest descent via calculus and optimization, linear algebra, and hypothesis testing.

glitchc
0 replies
1d5h

It definitely makes the first couple of years in university that much easier, although limited to the science and engineering disciplines.

fumeux_fume
0 replies
1d3h

Slightly galling that people write this kind of drivel without examining any of the shaky premises it's logic relies on. Yes, in a perfect world, we can all learn our course material in advance and skate through our in-class education. More practical advice would be to build strong study habits and networking skills. Being able to get your work done with more time for editing/revisions and having access to other perspectives on the course work would have definitely improved the quality of my education. Building those habits and community take time and energy. I guess no simple hack there.

dmazin
0 replies
1d2h

I did this: I studied pure math in uni because “it could be used for anything.”

I hugely regret this.

1. I didn’t find it that interesting, and so I don’t feel like I got much out of it. 2. I found later that I learn math much better when I can “hang” the ideas off practical examples. For example, I learned math for the sake of understanding deep learning far better than I ever understood math before.

Ultimately, I think it’s far more important to study something that interests you, and to learn the tools you need as you go.

dilap
0 replies
20h24m

Then there's the approach taken by my university's physics department, where they made it a point of pride to always have you using math before you'd learned it from the official math classes...

dambi0
0 replies
22h48m

Beyond the general idea that the more time you have to think about a problem the more likely it is you will do better at solving it. How does this translate into an ability to solve more emergent problems? Isn’t this “hack” somewhat similar to the idea of people who have never had to step up and learn to work harder. And in fact the hack gives a false sense of confidence in the ability to solve more typical real world problems when it matters.

bell-cot
0 replies
1d8h

Within a limited range of academic disciplines, it's a great hack. Outside of that, and situations where being a "math genius" is social cred - not so much.

The article's pretty good on why institutionalized education doesn't like students who are seriously ahead in learning math. (Or any other subject.)

But it's pretty much silent on the self-discipline and self-study skills (or parent-paid tutors) required, to seriously learn math years ahead. And the former are probably far better indicators of long-term success than the early math skills are.

alabhyajindal
0 replies
1d2h

I am currently learning maths independently. I'm using the book, Maths: A Student's Survival Guide by Jenny Olive. I'm towards the end of the first chapter and feeling confident with basic algebra now! I picked it up after seeing it recommended here.[1]

The book explains a topic concisely and then gives exercises. Importantly, the exercises don't assume previous knowledge and you can solve them by applying previous explanations. Highly recommended!

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39050972

ailtjalwiejr
0 replies
1d3h

I got good at calculus when I started doing differential equations. I got good at differential equations when I started doing modeling and control theory. In general, you don't get good at a subject when you learn it in class; you get good at a subject when you work on the stuff one level beyond it. So yeah, if you want to be good at the class you're in, start studying for the class after it. This is definitely an effective method.

But then again, that's really difficult to actually do. For anyone who grew up surrounded by resources, that might sound like a really easy and obvious suggestion. "Just listen to the tutors your parents bought for you." But for the students who can't afford books for this year's classes, you might as well be telling them to "just grow wings and fly, it's not hard".

Me personally, I knew plenty of people who did this, learned a year ahead so they looked extra good in class. Most of them had parents who had PhDs, paid their rent for them, and explained what problems they were going to face far ahead of time. For the students who leave class and go to work to pay their own rent and then go back to campus to study and do research at night, this is not very helpful advice. Like so many educational "one simple tricks", the unspoken prerequisite is "just be born rich".

advael
0 replies
1d3h

I agree with this tip. Works great for anyone who can autodidact, and if you're good at finding and vetting resources, autodidacting got easier with the internet, and has only gotten a little harder with the proliferation of nonsense on the internet for topics that aren't hot in business or politically charged

Also, this really shows how the incentives in "education" are deeply misaligned with the way we talk about it. At least in the US, the point of education seems to be mostly gating outcomes and sorting people. Learning is incidental and game theory suggests it's better to never take a class that's truly new material for you, because getting a bad grade can harm you, but learning something new isn't captured at all

NoNameHaveI
0 replies
22h49m

One of the best, most cost effective ways to do this is by enrolling at your local community college. Faculty there are primarily focused on teaching, and WANT you to “get it”. In addition to math, I recommend you take ALL the STEM courses you can that you’ll touch in university. I took separate classes in Unix and C at community college before my university quickly introduced them in systems programming. Boy, that was time and money well spent.

Joel_Mckay
0 replies
1d2h

The bimodal distribution of student entrance performance correlating to stratified fiscal castes has been observed for sometime:

"Outliers: The Story of Success" ( Malcolm Gladwell, 2011 )

i.e. the curriculum lesson plans naturally evolve to exclude individuals that don't need introductory lessons, because they are on average 3 years ahead of their peers by the time they enter undergraduate programs.

The kids that need to "catch-up" in introductory Math/English material are no longer failed/held-back a year in some municipalities, but rather given a remedial curriculum over the summer. If those kids parents can afford to put them through an early tutorial program, than excluding the "poor kids" from a seat at the more lucrative faculties is rather guaranteed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

Mind you explaining to privileged kids why they _get_to_ attend additional instruction can be difficult. As social media normalizes lack of impulse control, and rewards group-think biases. Our little ingrates think they can con/hack their way through life, as some fool on the web is telling them to take the easy path.

Some university kids that rely on student visa programs to access the US immigration process, will get desperate and try to outright cheat their way through a Bachelor of science degree. The real scandal is some folks get 50% of the final problems from $18.74 USD gray market course manuals out of HK, as many institutions must structure their exams this way for credit-transfer compatibility. The myth of natural talent deteriorates further with some fraternities also gaming the system to out-compete the rest of the student body when possible. Indeed, some people do hack/cheat their way to a better life using underhanded tactics, and are rarely held accountable. Some places are even removing the barrier where one needs to be fluent in English.

You are probably still thinking this can't be right, and seats for becoming a physician/pharmacist/lawyer are open to anyone. Yet I can assure you that while the faculties will take your money, the probability of getting into a Masters/Doctorate level program quickly drops while you worked hard to catch up... Note your GPA took the hits along the way.

People need to recognize there is a subtle yet important difference between intelligence and academic performance. No one ever claimed life was fair, but the hypocrisy of many meritocrats can be intolerable at times.

Stealing Einsteins chalk does not make one Einstein... but does silence talent.

Have a great day, =3

Fatalist_ma
0 replies
1d3h

Learning the whole course ahead of time sounds easier said than done. But I definitely recommend pre-learning the next chapter in the course instead of relying on the teacher's explanation. Personally, I could never understand a relatively complicated math concept just by listening to the teacher. I usually need to think about it, draw things, read several different explanations, etc, to really get it. But when I was already familiar with the topic, then I could benefit from another repetition and ask questions if there were some complicated aspects.

DonsDiscountGas
0 replies
18h57m

Spending all of your time studying isn't a "hack". Not saying it's a bad idea, but it's a ton of work

ChicagoBoy11
0 replies
1d4h

I work at a private school and will sadly tell you that the author's points are actually pretty severely understated when it comes to the incentives of schools regarding this phenomenon. Differentiation is a word that gets thrown around as some tremendous necessity for schools to implement, yet in the case of math, where one could fairly easily (compared to other subjects) confidently assess the attainment of prerequisites, gauge student progress, comfort, etc., we comically either bound students who have clearly mastered materials OR happily move them along the math curve in which the deficiencies in mastery build on each other to eventually lead to a child who truly has a strong distaste for math.

More even than pre-teaching, I would encourage any parent to very actively be involved to ensuring that their child maintains a reasonable comfort with math throughout their study, and to the extent possible, pitch in to help those gaps beyond "passing" or doing "ok" in class, but to earnestly try to see if their child is comfortable. The reality is schools will very frequently PASS your child and given them fine enough grades, but I would argue that it is oftentimes almost orthogonal to how comfortable your child genuinely feels with what they've learned.

Bostonian
0 replies
1d1h

I remember having trouble in a electricity & magnetism course because I needed to learn some math concepts (divergence, gradient, curl) at the same time as the physics. It would have helped to have studied multivariate calculus before the E&M class.