By the time he had cracked the top 20, he was ignoring me completely.
Many years ago, I was the global "head of support" for the main trading application at a large bank.
I sat on the trading floor (b/c most of my users were there) and one of my jobs involved training the newly hired junior traders how to use the software.
The training was usually on their first or second day on the floor. At this point in the story, they were INCREDIBLY polite to me. "Thank you so much for showing us this", "Wow! This training is so great! We really appreciate it!"
Within two or three days, they stopped saying hello or even talking to me unless they were having an issue or there was an outage.
Reading about how ranking determines social interactions in the tennis world resonated rather strongly with me given my experiences working in technology at a bank.
Maybe im missing something but what is so strange about that? Once you stopped training them and thanked you, what else are they supposed to thank you for everyday?
In the States saying hello to one’s coworkers is regarded as a common courtesy.
At some point you can't say hi to everyone, which is very normal. I walk by a hundred coworkers a day, and don't greet all of them, it isn't anything personal if I don't.
That said, you better believe I Do take the extra 5 seconds to say hi to my bosses when I pass them.
Yes, but if you had a close interaction with one of those hundreds 2 days ago and were very thankful back then - then it is willfully ignoring the lowly peasant, to show them and everyone else, they are now higher in the hierachy.
I think people are projecting a lot of class stuff onto this which is besides the point.
I still think it is completely normal to figure out who your close coworkers are and settle into a group after a few days.
I think it is more about organizational structure and immediacy than anything else, unless someone is actively rejecting a greeting.
I work in a department of 100, and have met just about everyone. It would be extremely weird, not to mention distracting to say high to everyone when I walk to my desk. I don't think I am an outlier in that I prioritize greeting in this setting. Yes, that means I'm probably not going to single out some intern that I worked with for a couple days.
I don't think that makes me a psychopath, and it doesn't mean I wouldn't chat with them in an elevator or some similar 1:1 circumstance.
> It would be extremely weird, not to mention distracting to say high to everyone when I walk to my desk.
All you have to do is attempt to make eye contact and smile.
I'm pretty sure nobody cares about receiving a smile unless they're the socially awkward ones or are there for the wrong reasons (narcissists).
High quality work and facilitating the same in others is a far more courteous gesture than any awkward smiles.
> I'm pretty sure nobody cares about receiving a smile unless they're the socially awkward ones or are there for the wrong reasons (narcissists).
Are you autistic?
The vast majority of people appreciate a little eye contact and a smile which is literally the least you can do to acknowledge that they're human and not a piece of furniture.
Would you feel appreciated by a coworker who does sloppy work that you have to pick up slack for, yet smiles at you every morning? Didn't think so. It would likely make it worse in some ways, wouldn't it? You might feel pity and guilt, not happiness.
But I think most would still try to work with them to improve in good faith because that's work. The smile is irrelevant. The happiness comes when you've helped train them up. Then the smile actually means something.
On the flip side, would you feel appreciated or intimidated by a coworker who smiles at you yet carries all that soft power of deep knowledge and skills nobody else at that workplace has?
Smiles can mean a lot more than shallow acknowledgement especially in the workplace. At a social gathering though, sure the smile is just friendly.
> Would you feel appreciated by a coworker who does sloppy work that you have to pick up slack for, yet smiles at you every morning? Didn't think so. It would likely make it worse in some ways, wouldn't it? You might feel pity and guilt, not happiness.
The OP mentioned walking past a hundred peoples' desks. Do you really need to feel appreciated by a hundred random coworkers to act like a decent human being?
No... ? Where did you get this impression?
Anyway I think we're approaching a learning moment in work culture differences.
Anyone who does heads down work expresses appreciation through competence and willingness to help. When you're in a tight spot and need a solution, getting that help is better than all the smiles in the world. That's teamwork. You can genuinely smile after. I'm not against smiles. I'm just saying they don't mean anything in and of themselves.
Maybe you rubbed a raw nerve because you made me think of those cheesy appreciation e-cards I remember from a previous job a while back. That's about as soulless as it gets.
Smiling usually doesn't, and shouldn't, get you anywhere.
When I walk to my working area, I see maybe 10 people and if they look at me I nod and they nod back or maybe say hi if they are closer with me. I'm not greeting a worker, I'm greeting a human being.
That’s not easy for everyone
True, but we are not talking about developers on the spectrum, but traders, who are usually more social by nature.
If developers are on the spectrum then traders are sociopaths, no?
Meeting someone is something different from receiving a personal training on the first day, which was 2 days ago at the point of the story.
Also trading floors are intense and require focus.
Not really, you're going to meet a whole heap of people in your first few days. It's pretty overwhelming! They person who ran you through some software but otherwise isn't a day-to-day contact isn't going to stick in your head for long!
This doesn't strike me as wrong, but does surprise me. I have had friendly relations with the front desk at most of my positions. And we literally didn't know each other's names. Still nice when they notice a dropped thing of mine. And I didn't get too many chances to help them. Did where I could. And a smile and general conversation is not exactly easy, but you don't get good at things without practice.
Heck, janitorial staff should get more than ignored.
So yeah, odd to drop into such a divide.
There is a big difference between seeing someone 1:1 vs in a crowd, as well as the corporate culture of an environment.
If everyone is rushed and miserable, they aren't going to be throwing out pleasantries as they rush through the halls.
But throwing out pleasantries is a good way to avoid rush and misery?
If you use that software daily, I would disagree.
I remember all my (good) instructors.
More so if the lesson was 2 days ago.
I doubt the global head of support for a major bank is seen as a lowly peasant
Maybe you are right. Head mechanic or Butler might have been the better metapher.
Who suggested one should say hi to “everyone”? Was something edited out of a parent post or TFA?
I thought that was the point of your post (e.g. that it is a breach of common curtesy to skip greeting someone.)
Is it? In the US the majority of my coworkers just drop in (virtually or not) to ask questions without saying hi (even at the start of a sentence containing the question). That's not true for other countries.
OP: > they stopped saying hello or even talking to me
The OP said they completely stopped talking, which is weird to not acknowledge someone you previously would talk to. Seems like sociopathic behavior to me, which these professions tend to attract. They got what they wanted/needed out of the relationship and now could care less.
Obligatory mention that the more correct and logical formulation is "could NOT care less".
Thank you for your service to the English language. This tremendous faux pas is so easy to correct just by thinking for a single second the basic logic of what is being said, and yet so many people continue making the mistake. Even worse, sometimes people justify it with a wacky "I care so little that I could care less, but I won't, that's how little I care" explanation.
It started as a sarcastic statement not a mistake, but it’s been used so often it’s turning into an idium.
Languages are full of phrases that get used so often the original meaning gets lost organs others that are heading that way. Raining cats and Dogs is ancient and nobody is quite sure where it came from, but as long as people understand intent there’s no need for to add up correctly.
Given that in English people say “I couldn’t care less”, seeing the complete opposite is somewhat weird.
Sure, but there’s quite a bit of this stuff. Contronyms will often allow identical phrases with opposite meanings. Left can mean to leave or to remain. Dust can mean to add a fine power to something or to remove it by dusting. Sanction, Bolt, etc there’s quite a few words that mean the opposite or something close to it.
Words with opposite meanings can end up converging. ‘That’s cool’ and ‘that’s hot’ sometimes have the exact same meaning depending on context.
Try as we have, we just couldn't stop 'literally' from turning into a synonym for 'figuratively'.
also see: the definition of moot, e.g. “moot point”.
its the fraternal twin to "with all due respect"
From what I've read, the logical formulation is indeed "could not care less".
But the correct formulation is a shrugging question "I could care less?", with the implication that the care-meter is already pegged at zero.
It is completely normal human behavior when you work with many people.
I still see people I haven’t worked with for 15+ years. Assuming I recognise them I will nod or say hey if I bump into them in the lift.
Sure, that seems very normal too. I imagine you still wouldn't say hi to each person when you walk through a trading floor with maybe a hundred people each day.
given how cheap is to say hello, and maybe get some advantage from this in the future, this is not very smart sociopathic behavior.
But this maybe be result of culture differences: some people grew up in culture where work is work(with all protocols, like saying hello to coworker), and personal life (interhuman behaviour) is something separate.
These people spend pretty much all their time in work. They don't have personal lifes separated from work. Even if they have partner, it is someone they see 30 min a day or something like that.
True, if I was a really smart sociopath and a good actor I'd just mask and act like I'm normal so I could extract friendship and true love from people by giving them the same
Yeah professions like finance both attract and reward sociopathic behavior.
And yet I'm sure they managed to think up something to say to people higher in status than themselves.
sure, which is pretty normal, given the real world power dynamics that organizational structures represent. Of course people will go out of their way to play nice with the people to set their pay and promotion.
Yes, all primates care about status, including humans.
Being a non-treadmill human.
This is reflection of our innate tendency to fit ourselves in an hierarchy and judge others by their perceived position in that hierarchy. The stronger someone attaches their self worth to their place in this hierarchy (ranking for tennis players, job title in corporate setting etc), the stronger their behaviour towards others will be driven by it.
This may be true, but I'd also argue that distinguishing power solely derived from hierarchy (nepotism) and everything else can be difficult.
I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like you're saying meritocratic hierarchy can't exist. The observed behavior of someone in a higher position might simply be because it's their job to detect and correct ignorance and inefficiency.
Ego is a universal human problem, not only at work and sports, but in anything in life.
* some peoples innate tendency.
I have always observed this behaviour as typical for one or two of Moltke's quadrants, people I so far have managed to be quite insulated from.
If I ignore you or anyone, please instead assume it’s because interacting with you or anyone is very exhausting. I can and will be polite and full of smiles as you train me, but that’s by far the hardest part of my day.
It’s hard to say hello?
Very.
Interesting! Thanks.
Such a bizarre thing to experience, especially when you first join the work world.
Hah! Same experience with some not even junior traders when I worked in finance in Sydney. As soon as they graduated to junior trader I was shit to them. Only 80% of them but was instructive.
At a company I worked for years ago, I was the "onboarding buddy" for a new hire. My job was to welcome him and help him learn the ropes.
He was very respectful and appreciative of my assistance.
After the onboarding period I learned that he was hired to be the manager of our team.
Everything changed. Now it was "I am the boss, you are the worker. I will assign you tasks and expect you to complete them. And don't question my decisions!"