And that typed text is way, way cleaner than any typewriter I’ve seen.
Pedantic point: electric typewriters (which have existed since the 1960s) do type in a way that looks exactly like this.
(In fact, note that the text on the real employee ID card, shown later in the article, doesn't look any less clean! It's just set in a different, narrower font.)
The smudginess of mechanical typewriters comes from 1. them striking (and especially, releasing) at the same speed you're depressing the key, and 2. having many of the keys necessarily approach the ribbon from an angle.
The keys being swung weakly by your fingers, also has the additional implication that the ink ribbons used in mechanical typewriters have to be soft and squishy (so: made of cloth), and use thin inks. These properties ensure a transfer from even a low-velocity impact. But the trade-off is that cloth ink ribbons transfer only a rough outline of what's struck; and thin inks are high-bleed inks.
An electric typewriter, playing out a pre-buffered line with a crisp, predictable report, using linear actuators and a rotating-ball type-head to bang a tape ribbon loaded with high-viscosity ink onto the page, can create text indistinguishable from books/newspapers of the same period, or from modern laser-printer reproductions of the same font faces. They're essentially character-at-a-time letterpresses!
(Also, ignoring electric typewriters for a sec: inks bleed more on thin, cheap paper. But this is [a forgery of] an employee ID card — where, for durability, a nice heavyweight paper or cardstock would have been used. You're always going to get a better-looking result inking such paper.)
I have used multiple typewriters in my life, and agree. In addition, the look of film/tape vs cloth/nylon is very different, and tape ribbon can look very crisp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_ribbon#Single-pass_(polyme....
Do you mind if I ask why you still use typewriters?
You might be interested in this video about why Gen Z is starting to use typewriters again [0]. In a word, focus. They say they are often too distracted from writing when using a computer as it is easy to surf the web instead of writing your paper, so having a single purpose utility rather than a multipurpose one is actually a boon.
[0] https://youtu.be/PdYPZr1Flog
Sounds like we need a single-purpose Linux distro that only runs a word processor. Of course that's not nearly as interesting as using a physical typewriter, but it sure is easier than scanning all those typewritten pages using OCR.
Sounds like they need to learn how to deal with this. Turning off notifications might help as well. Eventually typewriter will not work as it's a mind issue and not a tool issue imo.
The typewriter is them dealing with it.
Isolating oneself from outside distractions to help concentration is nothing new - libraries have provided quiet places for studying for aeons.
That feels a bit like saying you disagree with farm automation so you fired your oxen and pull the plow yourself now.
There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm empathetic to the people that feel like they can't focus in commercial operating systems, but their only option is to adapt or fall off. Making MacOS or Windows into a usable and non-distracting environment is basically the only way I have been able to make money in the tech industry. If I told my boss I was switching to a typewriter for efficiency purposes, I'd be gone before the end of the day.
How is a typewriter going to help you run an IDE? They're two orthogonal things you're comparing.
It doesn't even need to be code; I simply can't turn in work physically. If I type out my project notes or Kaizen report in a typewriter, I'll be asked to make a digital copy next. This isn't just programming, everywhere you go is digital-first and would vastly prefer a digitized copy from the start as opposed to OCRing a photo of my typewritten document.
Again - for personal use, go crazy. Nostalgic stuff is fun! This is not a solution for 90% of the workforce though and I would argue that relying on a typewriter for isolation is harming your professional prospects. Apply to any job and compare the reactions you get bringing your typewriter to the first interview with the reactions you get from bringing your laptop.
You're arguing a strawman, no one said anything about using a typewriter professionally.
It's not a strawman at all. The parent claimed "The typewriter is them dealing with it" and I am listing all of the different ways a can typewriter impair you personally.
If you don't care about the way people perceive you, how productive you are, how accessible your work is or how error-proof your product is, maybe a typewriter is for you. I cannot imagine a practical application (even casually) where you would benefit from a typewriter over a word processor and inkjet printer. I say this as someone with a typewriter not 20 feet away from where I'm standing now; they suck.
You are still missing the point of why they use a typewriter. With a word processor on a computer, I can easily start browsing TikTok instead of writing my paper. Not so with a typewriter. Of course, it has its own cons compared to a computer as you state, but to say there are no "practical applications" is wrong, as evidenced by the fact that people do in fact use typewriters as I've stated. If it were not practical at least in some small way, they wouldn't be using it.
Is that a personal problem, or a computer one though? Many people (myself included) have zero issue ignoring Twitter and Instagram while we work. In fact, typing on a computer is much easier than using a typewriter for a number of reasons:
- Don't need to buy ink ribbons or paper to continue typing
- Don't need to stop and switch out stamps to change your typeset
- Can infinitely reproduce a single document as many times as you want
- No white-out or paper strips required when you make a mistake
I don't know if you've ever used a typewriter before, but it should simply be common knowledge that it's the slower and more distracting way to type. Every second you spend using a typewriter instead of getting comfortable with a computer is wasted effort. Every time you take your typewriter apart to make a simple change, that's time you could be spending writing uninterrupted on a digital medium.
Then it's not for you, continue using a computer. It's a personal problem solved by the use of a single purpose technology rather than a multipurpose one, as I've initially stated.
I have used a typewriter and while it can be slower than a computer, some wasted time is better than wasting all one's time because one can't focus and distracts themselves instead. Sounds like you still simply don't get it, and I'm not sure how I can explain it further as I've restated my points several times now that those who use it can't focus when writing on computers.
I don't get it. I also have a typewriter and would rather use Vi to type a term paper than even entertain the thought of switching out LATEX typesets. It's a no-brainer, it's far, far easier to dumbify your computer than it is to modernize a typewriter.
Creative writing can be better accomplished with a typewriter. Imagine yourself in a cabin in a forest, with no electricity. That's extreme, but you get the idea.
Also, having a physical copy of your work >feels< safer.
I understand to a degree but there's always 'but'.
How is typewriter any different than fullscreen text editor? You can have a quiet room with a computer no?
What I'm saying is, if they don't work on themselves, a physical device won't help long term imo. Eventually they will land back on distractions.
I read an anecdote once that novelist Jonathan Franzen writes on a laptop which has had the WiFi card removed and Ethernet port glued shut. He's pretty successful so whatever works imo.
I don’t think this is true. They might struggle with distractions elsewhere but if they’ve created a ritual out of writing in this distraction free environment they’ve created it will probably always work for them (and maybe better over time). Having the experience of doing things without distraction might also help them ignore distractions elsewhere.
By way of analogy, learning to swim in calm waters helps you learn to swim in rough waters by giving you the experience of what swimming is even like.
Nah, if you don't set up on a train station platform and do all your work from there you simply have a mind issue and should learn how to deal with distractions
Why? What works, works.
Career writers have been using "dumber" text editors and computer systems to better mentally isolate their work for decades. It's not even an attention thing.
There were word processors with storage - I can’t remember how they worked but a dedicated typewriter doesn’t mean you can’t also get an electric copy.
Also found this in a quick search, basically an ereader + keyboard: https://getfreewrite.com/products/freewrite-traveler
I built something similar using a spare ThinkPad x220 I had lying around and a minimal Debian installation. I would prefer something closer to the AlphaSmart Neo line of digital typewriters, though.
Theres a whole category of products that is just a keyboard with a tiny 3 or 4 lines of text lcd. (google electronic word processor, or Tandy WP-2). Probably not as popular today as they were back in the early 90s before everyone had a Pc, but I think they're still manufactured.
This is why meditation is important.
People need all sorts of excuses to just calm their mind and say it’s some disorder.
But I’ve literally never met someone who genuinely tried meditation and it didn’t help them.
I used to run a meditation group at work and the dozen or so people who consistently showed up reported that it changed their life. And I’m no expert I just do breathwork and concentration on a single object like a red dot sticker.
They rather use medication or spend money buying gadgets and toys.
Oh well. Not my problem when the solution is literally built in.
Get off your high horse. My brain is literally, physically, developed wrong. It's broken. I need treatment, medication, therapy, not a fucking meditation tape. Not that meditation is bad or wrong or worthless, because I used to like it, but it's not medicine.
Do you also insist people with bad vision just try looking harder? Maybe squint a little bit more? Who needs glasses, the fix is built right in!
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that behavioural approaches should be tried first. On the other hand, framing the failure of behavioural approaches being the result of not making a genuine attempt is harmful. It may dissuade them from finding more effective treatments for their particular case, or at the very least delay them seeking help.
Medication isn't something they just hand out to anyone who asks. The reason it exists is because there is a large body of scientific research that all points to it helping treat disorders such as ADHD, whether you believe it or not. Meditation may also provide benefits, although there is less scientific evidence today that it does.
I bought one recently at an estate sale so that I could write things without the ability to open a window and browse the web.
Why not just use a pen?
I can type on QWERTY much faster and more legibly than I can write with a pen. I suspect this is true for most proficient QWERTY typists.
I've never tested it, but you may be right. On the other hand a pen is smaller, and you can draw and doodle with it.
I used to love doodling and drawing, but as soon as I start to write my hand cramps up. I take hand written (short notes) for work and I struggle to read them a month or so later when the context is gone. I also really struggle to spell, and will consistently get common words wrong.
BUT on a keyboard I can type almost as fast as I can think - and I can also spell 90% better - I don't know how it happens but it is like the words 'flow' out of my fingers when i type - and I can easily spell words that if you asked me how to spell I wouldn't have a clue. Also if you asked me to find you a key on a keyboard I'd have to look - but when I'm typing my fingers just know where they are.
I'm a 44 yo successful man, but I still don't know my alphabet well (for example I couldn't start in the middle or recite it backwards) - but put me in front of a keyboard and I can type all day long (note - I am VERY thankful for spellcheck though!)
I always had similar problems in school growing up. A few things that I've found helpful:
- Try a larger pen. It helps you maintain your grip on the pen without as much effort.
- Try a pen with less viscous ink. If you're used to ballpoints, this can mean e.g. a rollerball. This lets you write without putting much pressure on the page, which at least for me significantly helps to avoid hand cramps. (I use fountain pens these days myself which write with even less pressure, but rollerballs are a more familiar starting point.)
Thanks, I think for me part of the cramp is a mental block - I spent a long time hating writing (and English lessons in particular) and being told I was bad at it/lazy.
but as soon as I could type my essays I loved English and writing.
You can also use your pen to draw or doodle on your typewritten documents. Doesn't have to be one or the other.
As a lefty, I've tried writing properly, and tried to like it but I just... Don't.
in my case, writing with a pen for long periods of time makes my hand cramp/hurt real bad (i still write on my journal daily but it's not pleasant).
(i don't have a typewriter, but i prefer to type anything because of this).
As an avid pen/paper user I can say that using a pen takes more time, plus you can't OCR it as easily as a typewriter output.
Nevertheless carrying a nice pen and a good notebook always beats having a heavy typewriter with you.
And, today, with LLMs it'll take you a few seconds to digitize the document, too. For this reason I've also been considering a typewriter...
Reminds me of those tablets (and pens) that you can write on / with and they automatically digitize and OCR whatever was written, as if by magic.
Does one exist that actually works?
The iPad, with the Apple Pencil is pretty much there. It’s actually amazingly good. I have terrible handwriting, and it doesn’t seem to have a problem with it.
If anyone ever tried using a Newton, there was a series of Doonesbury comics[0] about its awful handwriting recognition.
[0] https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mobile-computing/...
I got pretty good at writing with the Newton, but it was me adapting rather than the Newton understanding my natural handwriting (which is fairly neat given my parents are both teachers).
OCR has been a solved problem for years. Long before LLMs started being hyped.
At least from typewritten documents that you did not torch or shred etc.
No it hasn't. Just 1.5 years ago I tried all the latest OCR tools, including AWS, GCP and Azure services, and none of them could consistently and reliably read a receipt printed at a store.
Receipts are hard.
- cheap paper
- cheap ink
- misprints
- abbreviations
- every store does it differently
I was OCRing documents with ABBYY or Tesseract in 2000s if not a little bit earlier. I have been OCRing text documents with my phone for the last 6 years or so, with Prizmo.
It was taking seconds back then, too.
That piqued my interest for sure. This kind of thing exists too:
https://getfreewrite.com/products/freewrite-smart-typewriter...
but I'd really like to bring my own keyboard and have the e-ink display at a more ergonomic height. Combine that with Vim, and that'd be something I'd use
You might enjoy some of the full-fledged e-ink tablets (with folio keyboards, iPad style) on the market right now. Some even run Android, so you could definitely find a way to run Vim.
I was just looking at some today but the biggest downside right now is that they're pretty expensive for what you get.
It's kind of surprising that there are no "typewriter OS" based on Alpine Linux, but it's always has to be paired with hardware sales to go past prototype stage as a business, and even then the viability is dubious.
not the OP but,
I am in my 20s and I use a typewriter somewhat regularly to journal. I was raised on computers, getting the jumble from my brain onto paper is faster with a keyboard than a pen/pencil and paper. And a typewriter is nice and analog - no screen, no lights, no battery. I'm disconnected, focused, and performant.
Is it hard to find ink for it?
not too bad. I find a lot in local garage sales and on ebay. hasn't become a problem _yet_
(I saw this in another HN thread)
https://www.ribbonsunlimited.com/default.asp
There, solved it for you ;) They make the stuff
You can re-ink a ribbon if you're adventurous, or you can find new ribbons for many popular typewriters.
No harder than finding ink for a stamp.
For some things (e.g. a one-off need to address an envelope) they are still faster and easier than anything else.
...except a pen
I don't think I would write faster with a pen than with a typewriter..?
Yes. But for the one off need described (or similar) it’s way faster to write an address than to get things set up with a typewriter.
Of course for certain forms, better legibility in many cases may make it worth it.
Yes. Post Office OCR is pretty good, but deliverabilty of hand-addressed envelopes is not as good as with typewritten addresses.
If you have really neat block printing it might be a wash.
"Have used" does not necessarily imply present use, right? More likely than just "used", but still. I hope OP replies.
Yes, used in the past. I don't currently use them, though I think they are cool mechanical marvels, especially IBM Selectrics. Those were way too expensive to own personally, but were common in offices. My personal typewriter was a much cheaper Smith Corona electric.
Oh, I personally don't currently use them. This was in the past, starting from playing around with my Dad's manual typewriter. Took typing course in 8th grade on a manual. Owned a Smith Corona electric in high school. Used IBM Selectrics for school newspaper, etc. I'm old. :-)
I dont think the person you are replying to said they still use one. Just that they have used multiple typewriters in the past.
I have too, for that matter, but I haven't touched one in over 25 years.
This is one of those times when I wish Hacker News had something like Reddit Gold. Wonderful comment.
For a comment easily disproved by a simple google image search which returns plenty of examples of selectric output where the characters have anywhere to a very subtle but not perfect (like in the badge) alignment, to examples where the characters have "visible at arm's length" vertical and horizontal, and even rotational, issues?
Were those examples typed in 1977 on a fresh Selectric, or were they typed decades later on a tired Selectric?
1977 was a long time ago, even in typewriter years.
not the same thing but https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights
Wrong. Literally gooogle "selectric type sample" and see dozens of examples of them not typing anywhere near in a perfect line. Maybe machines with very low hours or kept in excellent condition might have excellent spacing, but there's plenty of examples of them obviously not having perfect spacing.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksherman/14249132603
https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/e7xxct/typefac...
Another example where misalignment is even more obvious:
https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/sc519r/ibm_sel...
http://www.jollinger.com/typewriters/typewriters/IBM_Selectr...
you can also see inconsistent letter spacing, more obvious on some fonts than others, but you can see some characters are connected and others aren't. And no, it's not just the position of the character relative to others on the ball.
As the author points out, these characters have perfect vertical alignment.
Then go look at high speed footage of the 'golfball' in action and you can see the substantial deflection caused by how fast and forceful the movements are. You can see the entire assembly is bouncing around as the rails it's on flex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTtKaqIpOJc
To be fair, the specimen shows some misalignment as well, e.g., the "S" at the very beginning is up and a bit to the left, the "Y" is shifted to the right, and there are small irregularities in "NGST", as well. However, I don't think that they add up in a sensible manner.
Notably, the Red Cross invoice is much worse: additionally to what has been noted in the article already, why would you have a hyphen in "Verkäufername"? Also mind the reoccurring use of "#" for "Nummer", which would have been rather unacceptable in a formal German document.
The image provided is so low resolution that this is probably a side effect of the edges of the characters being on the boundary between pixels on the camera's sensor.
Magnify it to full screen and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Now go back and look at the samples I linked to, where you can clearly see vertical misalignment.
I remember everyone in my school system had selectrics when I was a kid, and I assure you, they could produce text that was all over the place. Probably because the ones in a public school saw heavy use / were not properly maintained and serviced to the degree required.
There's an image with suitable resolution to show the misalignment: https://i0.wp.com/cabel.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/image...
BTW, also mind the drop of the "0" in "10".
Edit: We can all pretend it's perfectly aligned print, but, regardless, whether purposefully manufactured or genuine, there are obvious misalignments in that image.
and an a Selectric II/III didnt use a felt ribbon, but rather a wax transfer.
IBM called it a "carbon" ribbon.
I used to use one, so I was curious. It was hard to find good info by googling, but I eventually came across a presentation which claimed that the Selectric carbon ribbon "consists of a carbon wax coating on a polyethylene base":
https://www.scribd.com/presentation/419638824/typewriters (slide 21)
Searching for those keywords came up with this, which uses the exact same wording:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Scientific_Examination_...
The machine you just described is an IBM Composer, except the ribbon was not "high viscosity". Rather it was essentially solid, being a carbon ribbon with a mylar back.
Most electric typewriters were not Composers, so they did not pre-buffer lines. In fact most electric typewriters were not Selectrics so they didn't even use a ball. The IBM Executive for example used swinging type bars just like a manual typewriter, and it produced excellent copy that was frequently used as a master for offset lithography. (Source: Me. I used to own a print shop.)
The presence or absence of swinging type bars, pre-buffering, or balls makes no difference. Carbon ribbons and the repeatability of impression that electric provides are what matter.
And produced the most crisp type imaginable. I'm not sure any laser printer can compete.
At least in the 80's, there were also printers that worked like that, ie a character ball plus some sort of transfer material to mark the page.
Some nice up close content about some fancy electronic typewriters, from Technology Connections: https://youtu.be/YE0U018Copw