22 replies
1d8h
This has excellent performance, and is incredibly fast. Well done!
Mutools is fantastic for PDF I use it as a backup converter when imagemagick fails in my document viewer: https://github.com/dosyago/chai
6 replies
1d6h
That's pretty neat. I could use something like this professionally, might actually to 'contact sales' and see what kind of money they expect.
4 replies
1d1h
What is your application? I'm curious why AGPL wouldn't be a reasonable choice. Seems like you could modify it and link it in a way that doesn't trigger AGPL on anything except your modifications to MuPDF itself, which don't seem like they'd be too valuable to give away in most cases.
2 replies
1d
What is the point of a dual license if you can't pay for the commercial rights which guarantee that you're not infringing on the copyleft license?
Whoever I spoke to at Artifex [0] several years ago told me the terms of the commercial license were that if any output of muPDF were visible to the public, my company would owe $10k/mo plus some share of the revenue of the company. Unlimited internal use fell under the AGPL and was therefore free.
Btw, the software is incredible, it was a shame I couldn't use it!
0 replies
23h44m
Okay reading all of that link, in totality it's getting fairly ridiculous.
0 replies
22h5m
Thanks for sharing. That's kinda pricey, in the vicinity of 1-2 employees.
0 replies
22h14m
I'm in two markets, both heavily reliant on PDF rendering, viewing and distribution. Commonly PDF/A, which isn't very popular so having to adapt libraries happens every now and then. We're both into desktop applications and network services.
While I'm quite FOSS positive, a lot around GPL style licensing hasn't been tested in court and I don't want to be a pioneer in this area. Besides the business aspects of having to maybe publish some of the 'secret sauce', of course.
0 replies
1d4h
I tried paying for muPDF a few years ago and it was way way more than my company could afford. Had to use a different system that was not dual licensed.
5 replies
16h45m
Besides opening PDFs (and despite the project's name), MuPDF can also read EPUBs, but currently this WASM viewer can't open them. They must have had to reduce functionality of the library to port faster to WASM.
But I wonder if there are any intrinsic issues with displaying EPUBs using WASM?
4 replies
16h37m
Since EPUBs are just zipped HTML files, I guess rendering can be done more efficiently by the browser itself rather than by custom rendering on an HTML canvas.
2 replies
8h50m
I wrote an epub reader a few years ago and this is false.
most epubs are just zipped html, but not all.
There are different versions to this file format and some need to be parsed as xml. The chapter files will mostly adhere to html with caveats wrt anchor tags, image sources and similar as well as metadata wont be parsed/work with html parsers.
1 replies
6h42m
Can't you preprocess them with a custom parser and then hand over a conformant HTML to the browser?
0 replies
5h22m
Yes, but while thatd be a lot easier for epub (vs PDF), you can fundamentally do that for any other format too.
You could even - technically - take a picture as an input and then render it via background color rgb() using divs pixel-by-pixel. thatd still fall under that description.
0 replies
15h53m
You're right. In that case you could implement the unzipping and metadata parsing in WASM and just hand the HTML to the browser to be rendered.
It's still useful since browsers don't come with built-in EPUB support.
4 replies
1d5h
FYI: This does not work with iPhone lockdown mode.
2 replies
17h52m
Lockdown mode disables WebAssembly, which this uses.
(But it could be built with the Emscripten flag to translate the wasm to JS, which would work, but would be slower.)
1 replies
9h16m
how much slower would that be?
0 replies
3h46m
Usually around 2x slower execution. Load times would be even worse.
0 replies
19h56m
What is iPhone lockdown mode?
3 replies
1d
Very cool! But this being AGPL has me wonder: if you as a user download an AGPL licensed WASM binary, because the browser is making network connections by design, are you required to share the source with any third party your browser makes any request to?
And if your browser has proprietary/not “generally available” compiled/minified code loaded, from Widevine to your corporate Chrome extension, are you in violation of AGPL if you don’t share all the sources to all those things, which by law you cannot have?
Not a lawyer, but the idea of AGPL WASM blobs gives me shivers.
0 replies
23h41m
are you required to share the source with any third party your browser makes any request to?
The source to your changes to the binary, you mean, maybe? I don't understand the question. You seem to be implying that using an AGPL WASM binary would require you to share the browser's source. If that binary were a network application that was serving other clients, it makes sense to me that you'd be required to share modifications that you made to that binary, but I have no idea of how you would include the entire browser in that calculation.
If there's anything scary, I'd say it would be that if you were serving a WASM blob to someone's browser, you'd have to be prepared to also distribute the source (and changes) to the binary if it was AGPL licensed.
0 replies
23h27m
I'm sure it's not on purpose, but that sounds like fear-mongering against the AGPL license. None of the concerns raised here are remotely true. No worries :).
0 replies
1d
Very cool! But this being AGPL has me wonder: if you as a user download an AGPL licensed WASM binary, because the browser is making network connections by design, are you required to share the source with any third party your browser makes any request to?
No. Clearly not. A browser making connections to servers is not the same as a "user interacting with it remotely".
And if your browser has proprietary/not “generally available” compiled/minified code loaded, from Widevine to your corporate Chrome extension, are you in violation of AGPL if you don’t share all the sources to all those things, which by law you cannot have?
Only if you distributed the browser with AGPL code in it. If just runs WASM code its no different from any interpreter running GPL code.
2 replies
1d2h
A WASM-based PDF viewer may have security advantages over a native PDF viewer such as the viewer embedded in Safari or Chrome. I wonder if anyone has put MuPDF into a browser extension?
1 replies
1d
IIRC Chrome's PDF viewer is built upon NaCl which is basically a precursor to WASM. So it has lots of the same benefits and is basically running inside the web sandbox already. Until Firefox shipped PDF.js it was likely the most secure widely used PDF viewer due to this layered architecture.
Of course NaCl is no longer available to web clients, so I don't know what the exact state of the Chromium PDF viewer is. Is NaCl maintained just for it or is it using some other sandbox now?
0 replies
16h54m
According to https://blog.chromium.org/2024/02/optimizing-safe-browsing-c... the PDF viewer is still sandboxed, which would suggest they're either still using NaCl or they've moved to WASM.
2 replies
1d7h
Tried this on Firefox for Android but the table of contents takes up half the screen width ways, and I couldn't figure out how to get rid of it. Plus, it froze the browser when I backed out of the page.
Also it's quite slow to load the WASM, about five seconds before it starts processing the PDF.
This is on a fairly recent mid-range Samsung phone (Galaxy A52s 5G).
Edit: turns out it's View -> Outline to remove the contents pane. There's no "fit to page" option so I still couldn't see the whole page - the 50% zoom out option wasn't sufficient to see everything corner to corner.
0 replies
1d5h
Yeah, it needs a "fit page" option. But as a first example its very impressive.
0 replies
1d5h
You can get rid of it by clicking outline in the menu. Then it works surprisingly fast!
0 replies
10h39m
tried this on firefox (v125) and got this error in console
CompileError: at offset 0: failed to match magic number
0 replies
19h57m
Is there no mobile view? The sidebar stays open and the page width can't be shrunken with a pinch to zoom.
0 replies
19h0m
It has issues rendering the CIS_Ubuntu_Linux_22.04_LTS_Benchmark_v1.0.0 file. Lags like hell, it's ok with other files.
0 replies
1d1h
"Leading MuPDF.js" indefinitely on Mull for Android (installed from F-Droid)
0 replies
10h8m
If webOS came out with WASM already in place, it would have been even better :)
When the Touchpad was firesaled, I got one and was disappointed with the PDF viewer. Because there was no such thing as WASM (or even asm.js) at the time, it used out of the box a service provided by Adobe that on request from the UI rendered tiles of the PDF at different resolutions, depending on the zoom level.
Since the frontend code was JS, it was easy to implement an alternative via mupdf (https://github.com/filmor/webos-pdf/blob/master/arxservice.c...). Via the same inefficient process (rendering png tiles onto the filesystem), the mupdf implementation was about 3 times faster than the original (though, it's been 13 years, the actual speedup might have been less :)).
0 replies
1d
Very cool project. I noticed in the dependencies section its using its own JS interpreter: https://mujs.com/
Off-topic: Chai's license seems to be proprietary now. 7 months ago the license was AGPL as given by the LICENSE and README.md files [1][2]. 1 month ago, the LICENSE file was changed to the text of the PolyForm Noncommercial License 1.0.0 [3], but the README.md still says AGPL. If Chai continues to use MuPDF (AGPL [4]), then isn't Chai's new license contradictory (unless the Chai developers got a license exception from Artifex Software)?
[1] https://github.com/dosyago/chai/blob/a6b7fb50647ae001185bdc8...
[2] https://github.com/dosyago/chai/blob/a6b7fb50647ae001185bdc8...
[3] https://github.com/dosyago/chai/commit/45da5f12ab8a817dc4f74...
[4] https://github.com/ArtifexSoftware/mupdf/blob/master/COPYING
Don't worry about it, you're confused, it's okay. Hahahaha! :) AGPL requires you release the source and we do that.
As an aside — would be interesting to get Artifex's comment on this — but I'm not even sure it applies as we install the mutool binary via apt, call it from bash, and we don't modify or use their libraries at all. Would this even need to comply with AGPL at all? I don't know.
If you'd carried on your search of our source a little bit further, you'd see we use the mutool binary: https://github.com/dosyago/chai/blob/37c1a1ec0941d81e0d6f8af... ; and you also may have discovered what the AGPL means: https://artifex.com/licensing/agpl/ Hahahaha! :)
I would highly suggest you read the actual license text, because its a lot more than "just share the source".
Hahaha! :) You want to pretend we're doing something wrong, right? Okay you read it and point out something. Hahahaha! :) You know you're quoted "just share the source" comes from their page, right? Hahaha! :)
Hahaha!
Hehehe :)
Looks like they’re calling the mupdf CLI, which makes chai not a derived work of mupdf IIUC. This would mean that AGPL applies to mupdf only.
This WASM "demo" is literally the only viewer on Windows I've found that can handle documents like the Baldur's Gate 3 Artbook (around 300MB of high-res artworks in PDF format). Native and browser-based viewers all choke even on a decent system with lots of memory.
Even the MuPDF native app fails?
If that is indeed the case, we'd appreciate a bug report over at https://bugs.ghostscript.com It is hard to fix issues we don't know about. :)
Even okular?
That should literally be impossibly surpising
Checked Sumatrapdf on Windows and it's better - while on some fast mouse wheel scrolling the web version is more responsive, but then it doesn't adjust text quality, so shows blurry version (though zooming seems to fix it) while the local versionalways shows high quality text (sometimes after a delay)
Pageup/down scroll is without a delay locally but it scrolls through blank pages, so I guess mouse scroll just always does quality rendering, thus it's the only operation that's slower locally
So while pages load faster in the web version, they are of much worse quality initially
I’m curious, have you tried SumatraPDF (uses muPDF under the hood)?
https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf
I don't see it having any better performance than integrated chrome pdf viewer. Furthermore, with it using wasm i'd expected it to have custom renderer, but it's just pdf to html converter.
And loading times are quite bad (10 times slower - compared to firefox or chrome pdf viewers).
It uses a custom renderer, which seems to just blit its image data onto a canvas. The HTML is just there so you can actually select the text.
Does this generally satisfy accessibility needs too?
Loading the mupdf.js bundle is slow right now. When I checked it out it was super fast. Guess it's a server/ratelimit/caching issue with the HN hug being top of front page.
Which is what I guess you mean about 10x slower -- so you're making an unfair comparison as you're counting the network at peak, whereas browser plugins load from disk or memory.
But I actually thought the load of the PDF (once the app was loaded) was, for MuPDF.js, slightly faster than the browser plugin. When I watched it, tho I have not benched it. Do you have any benchmarks?
I downloaded this file https://indico.cta-observatory.org/event/5245/contributions/... and tried timing how long it took for the standard firefox vs this MuPDF viewer to render the first slide and there is like at least 3 second difference.
As others in the thread also report significant speed gains I think you either have some weird issue with your setup or how you measure performance.
Indeed, this appears to have the same advantage over other viewers as the standalone MuPDF, i.e. much greater rendering and navigating speed.
MuPDF is my main PDF viewer, due to its unmatched performance and good full-screen UX, even if I sometimes encounter PDF files that cannot be rendered by MuPDF, when I have to fall back to other viewers, e.g. Okular.
Coming from someone who is clearly in academia / research adjacent (!! judging by your comments) this is high praise!! PDFs are close to currency of the realm. Haha! :)
The developers of muPDF would likely be interested in the files that are rendered incorrectly so that can be fixed
The performance is astonishing. On my underpowered android, the PDF was super smooth. It's miles ahead of other PDF viewers (the worst offender is the Google Docs in browser pdf viewer, it's just horrible on my phone to a point where I refuse to even look at those documents on my phone). Really impressive