Just wondering, but is writing custom servers for commercial games still a thing?
They should have used my (dumb?) library, ctypes.sh:
https://github.com/taviso/ctypes.sh
Then they can access libm, poll(), select() and so on from bash :)
would love to see how poll() and select() etc work this way
Here are some examples!
https://github.com/taviso/ctypes.sh/blob/master/test/select.... https://github.com/taviso/ctypes.sh/blob/master/test/poll.sh
Yes, it is crazy :)
woah that's cool :) also hello tavis
Lol, holy shit what did I just read?
Amazing, installing now. I want to be part of the problem.
I mean if it's good enough for python...
I‘m not sure you should have done that, but it is impressive for the sheer chuzpa of it. Like reanimating Frankenstein.
Awesome, but beside the point of writing something in bash that never needed to be in bash for any technical reason.
Meaning if it requires bash plus some specially installed compiled c code, then it might as well require c or python or anything else and there is no point in calling it "written in bash", or writing it in mostly-bash-plus-special-plugin.
I do know who I'm speaking to so please assume I say this respectfully. :) I have no problem with a "pointless" project like that as I'll show in a second.
That said, this minecraft project itself relies on externals like xxd when it doesn't need to, so using ctypes.sh would be no worse in this case, so you are right, in this case they might as well have.
But for the record it is possible to read, store, manipulate, do math on, and output binary in pure bash without anything like dd or xxd.
The only byte that is a problem is null, and there is a way to deal with that. You can't directly store a null, but you can detect that you read one and store that info, and reconstruct it on output later, or do math on it, use it's numerical value as an array index or byte offset or whatever the byte is for.
For a minimal example, just copying a binary file: while LANG=C IFS= read -d '' -r -n 1 x ;do printf '%c' "$x" ;done <bin1 >bin2
That's a bit too minimal since it doesn't show what other kinds of things you can do that are more useful than cat-without-cat.
A bit more generic and useful: https://gist.github.com/bkw777/c1413d0e3de6c54524ddae890fe8d...
The LANG=C, IFS= , and -d'' all combine to render all bytes accessible except 0x00, and then the return value from read() tells you the difference between "we read a 0x00" and "we didn't read anything" and "input ended"
And it doesn't have to use < and > on the overall while() comand either. You can exec 3<>file_or_fifo_or_tty and read -u3 / printf >&3 etc inside the loop instead.
An example reading from a serial port: https://gist.github.com/bkw777/ddde771cc85fdd888c7ec74953193...
Used in anger: https://github.com/bkw777/pdd.sh see tpdd_read, tpdd_write, file_to_fhex, str_to_shex reading and writing both a serial port and local files and doing all kinds of processing on the data.
And these loops are not even subshells let alone externals. You can manipulate variables inside the loop and you are still in the same original context. I'd say parent shell but there are no childern.
Those all read a single byte at a time with read -n 1, but they don't have to.
You can read without the -n1 and each iteration of the loop will collect as much as it can between nulls instead of always one byte. That would consume less ram and less loop iterations.
But the things I'm using them for want to slice & dice the individual bytes and byte-ranges at numerical offsets anyway and the data is always small (by todays standards) so the array-of-hex-pairs is just too convenient where a[n] == byte n, and all bytes are treated the same whether printable, non-printable, or null, and aside from merely storing and regenerating the bytes with printf you can also use the numerical values directly as well by simply prepending 0x, so 0x$n or 0x${a[n]} almost anywhere you would normally have a simple integer. So you can do math on them and use them as array indexes and byte offsets etc.
Read the 2nd byte of h[] as a length of the payload to follow, and clip out that payload: ${h[@]:2:0x${h[1]}}
bash is one of my favorite, as favorite as vim and lua.
a single binary that is less than 2M bytes, universal, way more capable than many people think.
with shellcheck and good habits, bash can be readable and safe as well.
if you want something extra, you can always use C/C++ to add those utilities without using more involved FFI etc, and without pip/npm/etc to load who knows how many dependencies.
I dislike bash because I'm not good with it. It sucks but is still often the best solution available. Actually, one of my regret was not to invest more time on it when I was a student (a while ago) because it's one of these rare tools that accompanied me my whole career.
It's true. The nice thing is that there are many many examples of how to use bash. Just open a script file in random repositories. Most scripts are super SUPER simple. But just copy-paste to shellcheck and it will give some feedback if you're looking to get in some really quick commits and PRs :)
with shellcheck and good habits, bash can be readable and safe as well.
My favorite thing to do with shellcheck: add it to CI. Developers hate this one trick!
A lot of times CI and Dockerfiles have inline bash scripts. My next favorite thing to do is to move all of that inlined bash to their own script files. Now that CI has shellcheck: all that stuff gets checked too! Developers seem to hate this though because it's "less readable". Less readable my ass, it's way more safe.
Next problem: the same bash scripts are now in the same files in multiple repositories (a distributed build). I'm open to ideas for improvements here.
To skip the "move your scripts to standalone files" step some devs don't like, consider something like https://github.com/hadolint/hadolint which runs Shellcheck over inline scripts within Containerfiles.
A negative power, i.e. 2^(-n) is just 1/(2^n). I'm surprised the author didn't remember that with their own 2^-1 = 0.5 example and eventually reached out to awk for it.
I don't understand how this would help the author. Since the bash doesn't support floating point numbers anyway
This. Also, gawk has netwoki support, so you can write an mc server with just gawk.
I had the same thought. bc would have been a lighter choice.
And tryauuum, I think the author only needed powers of two to emulate floating point in the first place. So they could just divide said number by 2 a number of times.
Discussion at the time https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30347501 92 comments
Thanks! Macroexpanded:
My thoughts on writing a Minecraft server from scratch in Bash - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30347501 - Feb 2022 (90 comments)
While I am not good at bash programming, I am surprised how capable / non horrible it actually is.
Minecraft, one of greatest game since Quake
Now this is a proper hacker site. This is great.
So that happened... Jesus. I've read a lot of articles about the way they implement stuff but this takes the cake. Hands down one of, if not the best write up of something wild I've ever read. Top shelf.
As someone who's done a lot of work with scriptable Minecraft servers for both Java and Bedrock (ScraM), this is impressive. Bonus points for using "duckduckgoing" in a sentence.
For Minecraft, very much so. Minecraft, especially the Java version, is in a comparatively odd place in that it receives significant free content updates AND officially supports running any historical version AND has an extremely vibrant modding community.
Minecraft (Java) is as much of a game engine for others to build on as it is a game itself.
This is because in addition to being the most sold video game of all time, minecraft is effectively open source. It's not literally open source, but you can decompile java bytecode with standard tooling, and symbols are available, either community-reversed, or official.
Frustrating how game studios can see Minecraft's success here and not change a thing about their development practices.
There’s actually a very large and vibrant community for modding Unity games like this.
More competitive games can’t afford any type of easy reverse engineering due to the cheating factor.
Mods are the (amazing) end game for Lethal Company. So many fun, new tweaks and content.
For the curious: https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/
Click on any mod, and you can see the decompiled source. The mods use function hooking to run before or after certain functions are called rather than the event based system you see in Minecraft plugins.
I think Minecraft's position today has as much to do with the content of the game itself as it has to do with its architecture/Mojang's engineering choices.
The nearly-infinite expandability and modularity of Minecraft is partially due to the simplicity of the art, core game mechanics, and lack of storyline. Good mods are harder to make when the world they must integrate into is more complex.
I think this means a lot of games wouldn't see the kind of sustained success Minecraft has seen, even with more "open" development practices.
I hypothesize that the "open world" craze of years past was an attempt to capture Minecraft magic, but those games lacked the thematic open-endedness that really facilitates Minecraft's longevity.
minetest is open source for real though
Minetest is much more of a game engine.
I've heard from someone I know that played both extensively that minetest is less prone to losing everything for data corruption (never happened once in minetest, regularly in minecraft after a while. But sample size is 1).
Is that sample size of one from the java edition or bedrock edition of minecraft?
java
I don't think I've ever witnessed data corruption in Minecraft, and that's even playing since Alpha 1.0.11 and multiple data format migrations... well, my sample size is 1, too.
I've also been on ZFS nearly the whole time. Are you certain Minecraft actually corrupted your data file, or do you suffer underlying hardware failure?
The four great game engines: Unreal, Unity, Minecraft and Godot.
I don’t think Minecraft is number four on the list. It might be number two.
Roblox is somewhere on that list too ....
How many thousand mods does it have?
Isn't each server its own mod, in effect?
Not just servers but for some games clients too https://runelite.net/
I find RuneLite a fascinatingly well-built piece of software. The lead dev, Adam, did a fantastic job with it, and good on Jagex for allowing its use, even as far as advertising it on their own front page.
It really papers over (some of) the tedium of the game and let's you enjoy the rest easier. Love it.
Although writing game servers for commercial games is already "difficult", isn't writing game clients for commercial games a huge issue copyright wise?
I think it will always be a thing for those who play games & like to dabble with tech, either to fix a bug, learn a language, or just see how the sausage is made.
AFAIK yes, the RE scene is still active.