I am convinced f-zero and metroid are in the same universe, in the core you have big cities, the ultimate motor-sport, and bounty-hunters like capt falcon, on the periphery, dead civilizations, space pirates, and bounty hunters like Samus Aaron.
Now, admittedly, this is mainly based on them being based in the far future and having the same art style. But you have to admit Samus would not look out of place racing in Big-Blue
I read the article, but failed to understand what the satellite service was. Did they "stream". Was like twitch? Or did they stream a game over satellite and player could play while game data was being streamed?
If the latter, how did the voice over work?
It mostly acted like a digital storefront, or more an xbox gamepass of the 90s.
Except instead of down games over an internet connection, it only had one-way communication. The satellite would just continually retransmit the same games every few min. When you selected a game to download, the Satellaview would wait for the next transmission to come around and save it to the 1MB flash card.
You could then play the downloaded game more or less like any other cartridge. Many releases were just games that had previously been on retail cartridge.
But some games (these soundlink games) were more of an event. Instead of simply downloading the game, there was a scheduled hour to tune in, and everyone would play the same game in parallel, with roughly the same progression. New game data would beamed down from the satellite continually, bypassing the 1MB limit. Most of this streaming data was CD quality audio, either narration (often live preformed narration) or music, but it could also stream code or graphics too.
I understand it did have some ability to handle multiple tracks of audio, but most of the time the game was designed to work with only one track of audio, hence forcing the players down the same progression based on time.
That's a pretty cool concept given that it was almost 30 years ago!
Oh, the idea is even older. In 1980, video games downloaded over cable TV, was tested in a few US cities. Intellivision! Same basic idea. Cable service allowed very fast (1 Mbit/s approximately) transmission for the time, so games could transfer in seconds: : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayCable
And Sega offered something similar in the USA in the early 1990s too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel
I think Satellaview in Japan, was the first service of that kind, which was truly successful though.
More than 30 years ago. Believe it or not, the Intellivision has the same service, using the same basic technique in 1981:
https://www.intvprime.com/intellivision-faq/intellivision-fa...
https://www.intvfunhouse.com/mattel/playcable.php
(The Atari 2600 got a competitor but despite being the older console it was released in 1983: https://www.wired.com/story/streaming-games-actually-started... )
So, 43 years ago.
Game data would be downloaded ahead of time; the Satellaview came with a game cartridge[0] that gave you a system menu in the form of a JRPG town that looked a bit like EarthBound's Onett. It also had a second slot on the BS-X cartridge that accepted a memory card for storing game downloads onto.
For SoundLink games, the voiceovers would be streamed from a satellite radio channel while the game ran, and they could also issue game commands. Obviously this also meant you could only play a SoundLink game while it was being broadcast. There were periodic reruns in case you missed a game. The closest modern example I could think of would actually be something like 1 vs 100 on the Xbox 360, which only lasted for like a year if I remember.
Other downloadable Satellaview games worked almost exactly like a modern digital download system. You'd have to download the game while it was being broadcast, but could play it later. Except some of them would also have a start-up limit (like 3DS demos) after which the game would expire and refuse to start. Those are easier to preserve than the SoundLink games, assuming you can find an old Satellaview memory pack with the game data still on it.
Some of the 'games' were actually just magazines or text. There's some really odd ones we've discovered over the years. After Nintendo stopped supporting Satellaview[1], St.GIGA tried to repurpose the Satellaview as a program guide for their own satellite radio service using this feature.
Interestingly, there's a handful of SNES games with the same Satellaview memory slot on them that BS-X does - for example, RPG Maker 2[2]. I'm imagining that they distributed RPG Maker games using Satellaview, but Wikipedia also says RPG Maker 2 was available as both a cartridge and a Satellaview download, which seems like it defeats the purpose of having the cartridge also accept Satellaview memory cards.
BTW, if you think this is crazy, wait until you learn about the SEGA Channel, a cable modem that plugged into your Genesis[3].
[0] BS-X: The Story Of The Town Whose Name Was Stolen
[1] Because, among other things, they wanted to build the N64 DD around RANDNet
[2] Not to be confused with RPG Maker 2 on the PlayStation 2, which is actually RPG Maker 5, because international numbering.
[3] Or Mega Drive. I didn't even know Europe had this until I checked Wikipedia!
holey moley that's amazing
Back the 8 bit days there were radios that used to broadcast cassete tunes from ZX Spectrum and C64, if you were really lucky recording it, you would get a new game.
For me this isnt that much "wow" - maybe for younger people? I mean 1995-96 is already pretty late for the Satellaview and SNES.
96 was already the time i played MMOs on my PC like Meridian 59 with real multiplayer and downloaded from the internet using a 14k/28k/56k modem in that order.
The Satellaview service was a cartridge plus service combo that gave access to small games you could play on the SNES.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview#/media/File%3ASa...
There are ROMS available online for some games that existed and there are lists of all games, from the above I think the person found VHS footage from people playing the SNES with some specific f-zero tracks and from knowledge of the existing ROMs of f-zero used the VHS footage to reconstruct the track data, which I think is mostly tile positions, at least afaik the Satellaview games that were additions to existing games usually didn't add graphics only remixed what the game content was.
I think I remember playing a Zelda that was just the map from the NES one with different objectives, so I am going from that.
The latter. According to this wiki I found [1] the audio was muxed in with the program data, and then separated by the Satellaview satellite box. This audio would then get mixed in with the Super Famicom's audio output and sent to the TV.
The fact that a $5k bounty still exists for the original makes you wonder where the copy is going to be found.
What content is being produced today that we will offer a $25k dollar bounty for in 50 years? Perhaps something in Roblox or Minecraft?
What content is being produced today that we will offer a $25k dollar bounty for in 50 years?
Take your pick from any game that requires an online service to exist. 30 years ago that was mostly unheard of, but today it's a growing trend. Content is locked behind DRM, proprietary launchers, game stores, licensing agreements, subscription services, etc. Even single player content is not safe. It's absolutely insidious.
I bought a digital copy of Max Payne 3 a mere 10 years ago, and can no longer play it because Rockstar's launcher has somehow been unlinked from my Steam account, and refuses to start the game. I spent 3 months in a back and forth with their "support" team, and after automated messages telling me to upload everything from receipts, CD keys, and Steam screenshots, and still failing to verify that I'm a legitimate customer who wants to access the content I paid for, I just gave up.
The only way to preserve these games is via piracy. And sometimes even that can't save a game with heavily embedded DRM or reliance on servers.
And sometimes even that can't save a game with heavily embedded DRM or reliance on servers. //
A game that can't enter the public domain represents a breach of the copyright 'contract': monopoly for a limited (ahem!) time in exchange for enrichment of the pubic domain.
A company that leaves the pubic domain with no DRM free version, or no otherwise playable game, got copyright protection gratis. They owe the public the extra value they got from copyright. For companies that are part of MPAA/RIAA that means the full selling price, apparently.
Companies/C-suite doing this should be taken in hand and forced to return to the public any monies gained by use of copyright (for the DRM-ed works not able to enter the PD). And the same metric should be used for infringements, so if they claim they get no benefit from copyright then infringement damages will be zero too.
Of course a company could say "servers will be available for 10 years" up front, that would seem reasonable, but the game would still need to have a DRM-free copy available for the public domain.
I would support a sort of source code/content 'escrow' system for modern copyright registration. This stuff burns away into the ether now. If the library of congress had to receive a copy of the source code for any software it would be a big boon to future preservation and history. They'd fight like hell to stop it though.
there' s already a $500 bounty for an early roblox client.
At least that much could have gone into the effort to find the seed for the Minecraft splash screen world.
Here is FlibidyDibidy's "every Super Mario Bros. speedrun all at once" video mentioned in the article:
That's amazing, and I want that for every speedrun now.
It might be a lot harder for games that aren't side scrollers.
Though I would like to see someone try for eg Elden Ring.
You'd need to render all the player ghosts into a single world and then have a "god view" camera that pulled out enough to focus on the handful at the front.
Would be interesting figuring out how to render enemies/npcs with that, but it might not really matter— especially for a game where the route is well understood, everyone knows exactly what is going on just from watching the main character's actions.
I would watch that! Especially if the leader(s) could be highlighted or focused.
I love how you can visually see the effect of the frame rule clumping players together in each new level.
Some B747s also came with F-zero on the seatback entertainment system. I think this was also a special version as I don't imagine they mounted a super nes under every seat :)
This was the Nintendo Gateway System, and it looks like there really was SNES hardware at each seat (actually physically combined for each group of two or three seats, but installed at the seats, not some central location): http://videogamekraken.com/nintendo-gateway-system
Also related to the LodgeNet system that showed up on hotels around the same time, although that did use a centralized set of SNES cards rather than SNES hardware for each room.
actually physically combined for each group of two or three seats
So from this group only one passenger could use the service? I never realised this (and I only tried it for a short while because I was never a big fan of Nintendo).
But interesting, I didn't know that. I did notice that one time part of the entertainment system crashed (videos didn't work and some stuff even showed a typical Windowsy blue-screen) but the SNES stuff did still work.
I didn't have to pay anything for it by the way, no $4 per hour. I did notice the controller had a slide reader for a credit card, but it was not needed. I do think it was used for the phone calls though which was combined on the same controller.
No, if you read the article it says one device was installed for a group of 2-3 seats, and each device combined 3 Super Nintendos on the same card - so all 3 seats could play at the same time.
Fond memories of playing Super Mario World on the TV (presumably via LodgeNet) at La Quinta :D
F-Zero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Zero :
F-Zero begins in the year 2560 where the humanses' countless encounters with alien life forms throughout the universe greatly expanded Earth's social framework resulting in [...]
Odd excerpt… ai summary bot?
Nope, an odd transcription error that resulted from censorship and harassment actually
Likely a typo, I don't see it on the wiki page anymore
"Humanses"? Even if it weren't mistranscribed that's not a particularly useful excerpt.
F-Zero is a futuristic racing game series from Nintendo.
DidYouKnowGaming did a great video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDcrM706gws
My favourite part is where they used specialty software to recreate the button presses on the video with frame-perfect precision, and from that was able to recreate course layouts.
DidYouKnowGaming has been on such a tear for the past few years, ever since Dr. Lava joined them. They've gone from aggregator to legitimate researchers, making substantial contributions to the video game history & preservation scene, putting in the work to translate materials previously unknown outside of Japan and track down & interview game devs. I realize I sound like a shill, I'm just really impressed at how far they've come from the old tumblr blog posting fun facts back in the day.
Huh, really? I never watched them because it was just aggregation stuff, but I guess I'll have to give them another try.
Yeah they've come a long way from just reading off facts from TCRF.
Nowadays they do plenty of original research into these sorts of topics.
I concur with the previous poster: they’ve really impressed me with the research they’ve done. It used to be fun but not revelatory… but stuff like this? Pretty wild!
F-Zero was fun, I spent a lot of time on it. I really liked to find shortcuts by boosting just before a jump and trying to land on a completely different part of the track. But it was so annoying that you couldn’t outrun other opponents. You could do the perfect race, but if you made the slightest mistake in the last lap, the 2nd would be right there on your tail.
I think you are refering to the [0] "rubberband effect". I also played this game a lot. Great memories.
Indeed, in that case "rubberbanding" doesn't quite describe it as it involves giving a boost to the laggards (e.g IIRC in Sega Rally 1v1 second-ranked car max speed would get a very obvious +20kph plus a slight boost to grip).
Instead it might be the most egregious case of quantum tunnel rubberbanding: you could cut a ton of corners and they would still be right behind you, I presume the opponents don't run the course at uncapped speeds but are instead hard-warped right behind you every so often, with the illusion preserved as you can't look back when you move forward (although there's a map but it's mostly a progress bar and most of - all? - the time it shows only you).
Would be interesting to rev-eng the code implementing it or even have some PoV hack to witness it first hand.
You can outrun them on GBA though, the opponent is visible on the map:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltO5KjWsFd4
EDIT: looks like I'm wrong, crazy custom tracks have the opponent still run the course, e.g:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toumKYIqnss
... or maybe not entirely wrong!:
- this shows buggy warping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7hIo-s-KA
- there's just no way the IA can navigate this track, yet at ~2:38 suddenly the opponent is right behind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ba7wrrxFk
From when this was previously posted two days ago:
For the JRPG fans, Satellview was also used in a Squaresoft game called Radical Dreamers, a kind of side story for the much better-known Chrono trigger. Since it's been re-released, it's not quite so big of a target for preservationists though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Dreamers
And also served as the inspiration for the "true" sequel, Chrono Cross. I have fond memories of emulating Radical Dreamers on my Pentium 1.
I wish Nintendo would give us another F-Zero game. F-Zero X and F-Zero GX/AX were wonderful games. I know it probably won't be super profitable and the brand recognition isn't at the level of Nintendo's heavy hitters like Mario, Zelda, & Pokemon, but still would be pretty cool to see a new one, especially if they were able to modernize the random track creator that was in F-Zero X.
If you're on PC and want to scratch the high-speed hovercraft racing itch, Redout is worth consideration.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/517710/Redout_Enhanced_Ed...
Somewhat off-topic but one thing I noticed in the article's videos is the stark difference in visuals between the emulated game and the old VHS recording. Even though the image is much sharper and cleaner, it somehow looks uglier to me compared to the fuzzy recording.
This is what many retrogamers say. It's because CRT was more forgiving and generally fuzzier in its presentation, so gave softer/higher-def feeling visuals.
Watching on a pixel-perfect LCD quickly reveals all of the flaws.
This is really fascinating
We should have events like this where games are altered substantially with external inputs like this
I know of several modern examples where sound is used to transmit saves and other rudimentary things, but no hosted events or games ready to accept those hosted events as input
online matchmaking and “seasons” might be better for the companies for now, but I think this would just be more fun
The Satellaview was incredible. To think that technology not dissimilar to Sirius satellite radio was used to allow people to download games, stream voice acting tracks, plus there was a whole Mii-like system of avatars. All in the mid-90s.
It's wild to me to see F-Zero on the front page of... well anything. It's a really fun racing game with a hilariously cheesy story, dripping in 80s glam-rock visuals.
I could swear that I've played the bsx version before... did the dump get lost? Maybe I'm just misremembering for another bsx game.
Unfortunately I don't have the file anymore if I did, because I lost the mdadm array it was stored on in 2011.
Edit: I didn't realize there were two for the bsx... it was probably the first one that I had.
If you're an F-zero fan, like me, Nintendo has done a really good job taking the original game and turning it into a large scale multiplayer game with F-zero 99.
I'm glad for this article and these comments. How I've never heard of Satellaview or Sega Channel before now I'll never know, but fascinating to find out about!
Every time I hit back on an Ars article Linus is giving me the middle finger
I would say recreated is a more appropriate term.
Anything Satellaview related is endlessly interesting to me
Actual article: https://www.pressthebuttons.com/2024/02/lost-satellaview-f-z...
Actual link to content here:
My world is richer for reading this. I absolutely can see it. Like Redline meets Cowboy Bebop. Both can be b-side vignettes in a larger futuristic SNES world. Not so sure about Star Fox being in the mix, but not entirely out of the question either. But F-Zero & Metroid is a wonderful pairing.
James McCloud already exists in the F Zero universe
They really went all out with the Star Fox references
Not the same guy, just a reference. He's human, not animal.
BUT - Samus and Kirby take place in the same universe:
https://kirby.fandom.com/wiki/Samus
Although if every cameo means that it's the same universe...
https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_cameos_and_crossover...
Good thinking. Like how Portal and Half-Life are in the same universe. I'm also pretty sure most Rockstar games (Max Payne, Midnight Club, GTA, Red Dead Redemption) all happen in the same universe as well.
Max Payne is part of the Remedy Connected Universe together with Alan Wake, and Control
MP, Alan Wake and Control surely they do.
according to the Anime Captain falcon gets his power from Jesus Christ. Im not even joking.
https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/sakurai-confirms-capta...
This can only be true if the owners of these universes say so. Because there is no authority otherwise.
Huh, that is an interesting take.
Also laughed at Samus Aaron.
Samus Aran retired from bounty hunting and joined Captain Falcon on the racing circuit; this is mostly kinda sorta canon.