I just interned at the NASA office (at Ames) that designed large chunks of and did a lot of flight planning / analysis for Ingenuity. It had some really awesome people behind it and its success inspired a number of new Mars rotorcraft missions (rotorcraft will be an integral part of Mars Sample Return). Flight is going to be a huge part of future solar system exploration efforts and Ingenuity paved the way.
o7
Isn't Mars Sample Return pretty much dead at this point?
I contributed to the helicopter design for it so I'm biased but I think it'll happen eventually even if the funding isn't approved this administration/year/decade. The already-stashed samples will be up there basically forever, and we'll probably want samples from a few different areas anyways, so it makes sense to go grab them.
Mars has weather, unlike the moon. Will the samples really still be there a decade or two from now?
Mars' famous dust storms aren't so good at causing damage, because the air's really, really thin, so they can't pick up heavy particles even with high wind speeds. A serious problem if you need to keep grit out of fine machinery or electronics, not so much if you're worried about erosion (I mean, yeah, eventually it'd be a problem, but it's slow-motion compared to the erosion of something exposed to sand storms on Earth)
I guess it could eventually get buried, but I'd expect that to also be a slow process on most parts of the planet, for similar reasons. The only forces seriously driving weathering on the planet are radiation and wind—the radiation's pretty bad but not a problem for metal + some rocks that were already on the surface, at least over a span of a couple decades, and the wind just can't deliver much force because the atmosphere's so very thin (that's also why it's fairly difficult to fly on Mars).
As a fun anecdote this is one of the very few things that was completely faked in "The Martian" - book and movie alike, which is otherwise a hard sci-fi book. I think it's quite telling when your instigator for a disaster scenario on Mars has to be faked!
Well at least intentionally faked. It turns out Martian regolith/soil is also much more moist than expected so getting water will be relatively easy, but at the time of the book this wasn't known!
The thin atmosphere bit is acknowledged by the author, you can watch his talk here around 32:35:
https://youtu.be/gMfuLtjgzA8?si=8aZUEizDWuBhnaJg&t=1958There is another clarification later at 35:34 saying the dust storm is basically like talcum powder.
Well yeah, he needed some sort of catastrophic event to set the rest of the story in motion, and a huge dust storm which forces an evacuation and then separates Mark Watney from the rest of the crew was just the thing, so he added it although he was fully aware that storms don't work that way on Mars...
I don't know anything about mars, but I've messed with windmill math. This really doesn't make sense to me.
A 150 mph wind in 1% atmosphere should be a way stronger a 1 mph wind on earth?
You know the old formula,
force = mass * velocity * velocity
But with wind and water the more velocity, the more mass you get hit with in the same amount of time, so we get to multiply by velocity again.
wind force = mass * velocity * velocity * velocity
(This formula is why people die in fast moving water.)
So a Mars 150mph wind (0.01 * 150 * 150 * 150) would have 34,000 times more force than a 1mph wind on earth. Which works out to around a 32 mph earth wind.
To be fair, it wasn't even the only disaster scenario in the movie - but it's very difficult to come up with a realistic scenario where someone would get left behind with a livable hab.
How about a fight between members of the crew causing the mission to be cancelled, and one of the member left for dead after a violent interaction with another member who then lie about it.
Hard sci-fi is still a story and doesn't need to nail everything. And it had other pretty "unrealistic" moments that put me more off than the storm. Foremost, how they fixed the missed orbital rendezvous, no never going to happen that way. Or that they could just revert their home flight and go once more back and back again, how much delta-v would that be, never could have had that much extra fuel at least in that world... and other minor things, but still superb story.
I remember some nasa administrator laughing about that at a conference. "So at the end of the movie the atmosphere is so thin that he can fly through it at thousands of miles per hour without harm, but at the beginning a sandstorm at hundreds of miles per hour destroys the ship? Also the spacesuits ... no."
The samples are meant to survive the vacuum of space but can't handle some weather? That seems unlikely.
How erosive is the vacuum of space meant to be?
You mean that place that smells of burnt metal and is full of hard radiation? Surface of Mars is definitely more hospitable.
Guess I'm one of today's 10,000.
Wouldn't it be the smell of space suits and space stations, rather than space itself? I don't think astronauts have tried to breath the few particles in the vacuum.
The smell is apparent when one doffs their suit after a spacewalk.
They made a perfume of it.
https://eaudespace.com/
Not less erosive though.
Yes, they will. The weather on Mars can't do much to metal tubes. They probably won't be buried either (the area they're in doesn't get much net deposition, you can tell from how rocky it is), but if that does happen, each sample's position and the terrain around them is very precisely mapped so it would be extremely unlikely that any get completely lost.
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/9337/nasas-perseverance-rover-com...
We are talking about 6 inch long titanium tubes. What do you imagine the weather doing to them in a few decades?
I'd wager yes since Mars has less extreme thermal cycles than the moon
I would expect muskonauts will make the samples redundant by then.
I hope the development of the MAV will bring us closer to building launch vehicles capable of getting humans off Mars. Seems like the MAV is preloaded with fuel and pretty small but should provide some good data for future missions.
https://mars.nasa.gov/msr/#Ascent-Vehicle
Why do you say that?
It depends on sample location. After discovering patches of water ice, the planet is more interesting than ever.
No. It's probably better to think of the multi-mission MSR "campaign" as being reformulated to be lower cost and complexity.
I never came across this emoticon, but with what you wrote, its meaning became clear immediately. It's perfect.
Looks like a swimmer to me... what do you see?
The 'o' is a head and the '7' is an arm giving a salute.
Here, let me help you with that...
That's ridiculous, nobody swims up a waterfall
(but actually, thanks for the illustration... my dad was in the military but apparently long enough ago that I entirely missed this)
Edit: oh! You used a capital O rather than a little one! That makes loads of difference... the "hand" placement in o7 is way over the forehead, while O7 (or is it 07? either way) is much closer to a proper salute! Perhaps the military culture hasn't entirely worn off after all...
It's also the wrong hand. But I think the little o looks more like a head in this case. O7 just looks like a hex code or something.
Right hand if you're standing behind him...
Ah... it makes sense. I thought it was a head being scratched.
A salute
It's a salute.
It's a salute. :)
Same, I thought I was terminally online but I've never seen this before.
Oh, God, these comments may be the trigger to my mid-life crisis.
If it's any consolation, it's been around since the 90s
I remember being a terminally online teen thinking i would never fall out of “what’s hip” bc i enjoyed being online so much at the time. I have since never once installed or used TikTok and I have no idea what’s happening I am sure
orz
For the people who weren't aware... https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/orz
See it quite a lot in Twitch chat
It is a very common theme in Elite Dangerous, to the point that the station controller will sometimes say "Oh seven, commander" to you.
Also ubiquitous in Eve Online since about 15 years ago. Did it originate in Elite Dangerous?
This is where I was first exposed to it. I'm not surprised it's got a longer history than that, though.
No, predates broadband at least. Certainly was around on Usenet in the nineties.
Funny, I didn't see it as a salute... I thought it was a "flex".
Someone saluting