Use AA batteries.
Use AA batteries.
It'd be hard to fit AA and even AAA in the profile of the Magic Mouse.
The obvious response is that the mouse should be thicker to accommodate those batteries, but that goes against Apple's entire ethos.
1st gen MM uses 2xAA. Apple even had a branded NiMH bundle for that and keyboard.
Received a refurbed Mac and someone had swapped out their mouse for my rechargeable one... always a song and dance to re-connect every time the batteries die. (I pretty much use another mouse to get to the Bluetooth icon on the menu, I'm no Mac expert.)
I always shake my fist in the air and curse "Eric Seifert's Mouse" semi-silently in frustration!
Still use this one every day.
I still have and use an Apple branded AA chargers (came with Eneloops in Apple livery). It has the same connection system as the external chargers so I normally have it connected to a long cable. Used it internationally with the same adaptors as for my MacBook charger.
The reason for the thinness of the Apple Mouse is so that gestures can be used on the top like a trackpad. If it were domes like a typical Logitech mouse, you couldn’t do that. Whether those gestures turned out to be useful is another question but that was the reason.
I find the gestures really useful. It's the only reason I'd continue using a mac outside of work
I have a 2xAA Magic Mouse that I still use occasionally. Feels a little heavier than the later models, can't tell them apart otherwise without looking at the bottom.
A more plausible explanation was that the cable strain of not using a specialty cable was also an issue. Look at where the cable attaches to the mouse on a conventional mouse - it's usually very reinforced internally or extenernally
it has become a meme, but really a non-issue in real life if you used the mouse yourself really. A minute or so of charging is enough to power it for a whole day of use. plug it again when you leave your desk for a bit and you'll have enough charge for days.
Who do you think you are dispelling memes and disenfranchising the chuds who need something to complain about. I mean really? Why do you have to bring actual use and reality into it?
Seriously though. This is absolutely correct. I get that some people don't like it, but I really don't get the obsession with the charging port.
I guess I should be glad that these people didn't complain the Apple Watch can't be worn while it's charging.
You could just spring for two mice. And if you do find yourself in a rush and your mouse dies then just go for the backup and charge the dead mouse and it becomes the backup.
No, it was entirely to recycle the design and tooling of the Magic Mouse 1 which used AA batteries. The Magic Trackpad 2 and Magic Keyboard came out the exact same day as the MM2 but both of those happily work plugged in and even work wired while plugged in.
Supply chain guy - This is it right here. Hardware accessories like mice aren’t driving substantial sales or revenue; they’re just a cost of doing business if you sell PCs.
But swapping tooling and retraining staff on assembly is extremely disruptive for a manufacturer. That disruption is passed back to the 1st party brand in incremental FOB and per-unit surcharge.
The incremental cost eats at your margin, which eats at your profit, which eats at your street price.
So, if you’re forced to choose between margin erosion and incremental cost for a product that has little effect on sales growth, you save the money and recycle the design.
People will bitch about the port on that mouse while they walk to the Apple Store to buy a new Mac that comes bundled with said mouse.
Apple will save millions annually by not optimizing a product that doesn’t really make them any money on its own.
When it’s reasonably cost effective to make a better peripheral, they will. Until then, they’re going to pay more attention to their books than people’s complaints, because mice don’t drive their business.
Oh there’s no shortage of people that defend the MM.
That anyone uses this mouse for an extended period is insane. It’s heavy a fuck, not ergonomic in the slightest, has insane uncomfortable edging, and cannot be used plugged in.
This mouse has no redeeming qualities at all.
Being able to charge it while in use might extend the life of the mouse past the life of the battery
The fact that you only need to charge it once a month indicates the battery isn't going through many cycles. I expect the battery to last a very long time.
@Cwalv is still right. Especially if you value sustainability higher than the manufacturer's share price. And you should always do that.
Im not sure about that as both the Magic Trackpad and Magic Keyboard both have the charging ports on their backs.
Neither of those gets wiggled around during use though.
The wireless mice I've had with optionally connected cords for data/charging do tend to have a big glob of plastic at the end that locks into the mouse housing so none of the strain is on the actual USB connection.
Things like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-Mouse-Cable-Meters-Copper/dp/B...
Nah, it was a pure aesthetically oriented decision from John Ive. The ergonomics could be a lot better too.
Jony Ive*
It would be quite simple for the firmware to handle such use cases as that with some battery management.
They just want to control exactly how you use their products
I'd go a little farther than that—I suspect that they were worried a chunk of users would assume the device required the cord for normal operation.
Good for this guy, wow. Nice project.
I always thought that the Magic Mouse was really the ideal technology for interacting with a Mac--just too bad that it's so unergonomic. I can't prove it, but I blame a decade of Magic Mouse use for my very painful RSI, which I now have the pleasure of experiencing using any mouse at all.
Apple's input devices are beautiful, but they totally blow comfort. It's as if their industrial designers are all in their early 20s and have never experienced joint pain.
I suspect you’re right. I very much enjoyed the Magic Mouse but had similar issues with wrist discomfort. The neutral position of the human wrist is vertical - thumb pointing up as if shaking hands with someone. The Magic Mouse is so low-profile that it forces the wrist into an almost 90deg rotation. Ergonomically, it’s highly problematic.
The solution for me was to switch to a vertical mouse (well, almost) that allows the wrist to remain neutral. Because I missed the gestures I added a Magic Trackpad on the left side of my keyboard. Of course this suffers from the same ergonomic problem but I only reach for it sporadically so the impact is minimal.
Tried the vertical mouse, but no help. My wrist seems to be permanently fucked. I use a trackpad 100% now, no problems.
My 2 cents: I had rsi, then I started bouldering. At first I got more pain. The original rsi, but also the 'forearm pump'. But then after maybe half a year the pain dissappeared. Not just the new pain, but the old pain as well.
Building strength seems to help with all sorts of pain issues. I once banged up my arm pretty good in a fall; what helped was going to the gym and doing curls and extensions with whatever the arm could support: five pounds, ten pounds, whatever.
Blood flow is the most likely explanation there. The simple act of activating those muscles forces blood flow, which can often be restricted in a healing area. Same reason we apply warmth to an area and encourage light massage.
It's like the body reaches a false equilibrium in which the injury doesn't heal completely unless you "knock it out" of the equilibrium again.
From personal experience: if you have mild pain from past injury/strain, don't give up on trying to fix it. Move a lot, improve your muscle strength and try to stimulate circulation. Be careful not to repeat the injury, but don't avoid the pain altogether (eg. by reducing the amount of movement). It's possible that the pain will improve or disappear, even if your injury didn't heal by itself for years.
(Oh, and go see a physiotherapist a couple of times if you haven't already.)
A lot of “injuries” we have can be fixed with exercise.
This is why a lot of what PT’s do is teach you simple exercises to work ALL of your muscles, including those that might not get activated in our day to day existence, leading to problems.
I had always a sneaking suspicion that my RSI pain is psychologically triggered, as when I was in a bad mood my fingers didn’t “want to” be worked with. After reading similar comments on HN I grow more skeptical of this over time, which lead me to disbelieving it’s a real pain and not a psychologically caused one.
I use my fingers on keyboards all day long. Body adapts and grows stronger with use, it doesn’t get more and more vulnerable. After I realized this it went away. Now I can use them 15h/day with 4.5h/day sleep with no problems.
A vertical mouse was a game changer for my RSI. Stopped it in it's tracks.
Why don’t you put the trackpad vertically?
With the exception of a few select programs where a mouse is indispensable, I'm a happy Magic Trackpad user for over 10 years now. No RSI ever.
I developed pretty nasty tenosynovitis in my inner wrist from using a Magic Pad over a year. I even tried switching to using it with my left hand instead of my right, and eventually developed the same problem in the other wrist.
It got bad enough I opted for cortisone injections.
This was about 10 years ago. I’ve avoided Apple’s input devices since, opting for proper ergonomic keyboards and mice, with no further RSI thankfully.
Same with me. I use a gaming mouse on the right from my keyboard and a trackpad on the left. Very convenient for me.
I find mice that are too “ergonomic” to be difficult to use.
Have you tried vertical mice? I hvae one and it helps with my carpal tunnel (which incidentally I'm pretty sure was caused by Mac's butterfly keyboards and their lack of travel distance).
Yes, it's the "form over function" school of design that Apple is famous for
Apple's input devices are beautiful, but they totally blow comfort. It's as if their industrial designers are all in their early 20s and have never experienced joint pain.
Riddle me this: My wife loves the hockeypuck mouse. The only thing that remains of her Tangerine iMac is its orange hockeypuck; I bought her a USBA-to-USBC dongle so she can use it with her MacBook Air.
Fortunately, she uses her computer infrequently enough to be relatively unaffected by RSI issues, so that may have something to do with it.
My contrarian view is that the Magic Mouse _can_ be ergonomic as long as you use to be keyboard-centric and treat the Magic Mouse primarily as an extra-large scroll wheel. Then you'll find the scrolling experience with the Magic Mouse is even better than one with a traditional mouse or a trackpad because you can speed-scroll with any finger, at any angle, and with minimal frictions. I especially enjoy scrolling with the right tip of my ring finger.
So, the magic mouse is fine to use if you don't use it as a mouse...?
I can't decide which is more appropriate, "Think different" or "you're holding it wrong"
Reminder: he never said “you’re holding it wrong”
You are right, he said:
Gizmodo put their video on the web people were touching x marks the spot here and they were seeing a large drop in bars
doesn't seem like a good idea if you can touch your phone one particularly grip your phone in a certain way and the bars go way down
and the fix was adding hysteresis to Cellular signal meter so it wont immediately react, no bars going down on screen = fixed.
I do have a mouse pad that says “Think different” (from the previous millennium) but none that says “You're holding it wrong”. That's a serious gap that any competent mouse pad producer should hasten to fill.
I find scrolling is even more enjoyable with a trackball. You get an entire ball to spin!
For me nothing beat scrolling with an unlocked scrollwheel on my old Logitech mouse. It could keep spinning for >10 seconds and allowed super fast scrolling. Though FPS games with weapon switching bound to the mouse wheel did not like that feature at all...
The updated version is good too (m720), it's both bluetooth and the oldschool USB adapter in the base. AA battery powered / buy it for life design.
Try the home and end button, or the pgup pgdn button.
I got me a magic trackpad specifically because Apple's trackpads are so nice, and it allows me to pan/zoom large canvases in both dimensions (I've put it between the split halves of my keyboard, and sometimes use it with my left hand, while the right stays on the mouse). I've never considered panning/scrolling with one finger, it sounds very convenient. I guess this is something that could be hacked in software? Trackpads just send the coordinates of the touch points to the OS right?
Anecdata: however nice is inertia scrolling, me scrolling on the Magic Mouse 100% reliably triggers carpal RSI in under 5min: the activating finger tendon transforms itself into a scorching hell in short order.
Yeah, I honestly don't get the hate about the magic mouse
"Oh but you have to charge it upside down", yes. Every something like 3 months I have to stop for some 15min (if I don't remember to charge it first) to be able to use it for the rest of the day and then charge it when I'm not using
It is really one complaint that's more internet meme than an actual grievance
For a company as obsessed with design as Apple, it's a bad design. A mouse sitting upside-down, or on its side, on a desk is not exactly elegant. Even if it's just for a short period of time every 3 months, it's still an ugly solution. It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad.
A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better.
I have an old AA version of the Magic Mouse, I'd much rather use that over the current Magic Mouse, though I currently use a Logitech. If they ever move the charging port off the bottom, I might give the Apple mouse another look.
A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better.
Yes, but even that would change the aesthetic of the mouse when right-side up. Though yes, I like your suggestion
It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad.
That's probably worse though. And yes I agree it is bad
Basically yes, while charging upside down is ugly I think they kinda accept it because it's not "while in use" (also there might have been some space or other design constraints, etc)
I think GP might have suggested a flush connection that would allow the mouse to stay flat and even operable while charging.
In any case, given the thinness of Lightning, I still don't see how it would be impossibly ugly to have had such a connector at the top end of the mouse, turning it into a wired one during charge. The current Magic Mouse design is a compromised "plywood on the back of a chest of drawers" design.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpen...
Well yeah it's not like Apple had great mouse design on Steve's days ;)
don't be a basic fanboy, it's bad design
everyone knows it's bad design
The photos show why every magic mouse I've had always wore funny with the 'right button' getting mushy. There's only one microswitch and the right one is just a leaf spring.
There's only one microswitch
Classic Apple mouse design. They never change, do they?
Think about having one plane (the entire glass) pressing 2 microswitches. Debouncing one switch is hard enough, now you've got to debounce 2, and detect if the user was doing a really fast double click, or just pressed in the center of the mouse.
Debouncing buttons is a solved problem at all. Thinking that Apple is so good that they put the charging port out of a reason to the bottom but aren't able to debouce two buttons is silly.
I wasn't even aware that it could do right click. The magic mouses I had seen didn't want to do that.
you have to specifically turn it on in settings on macOS.
There are thousands of mice available on the market, and almost all of them can be used on a Mac. It's strange that anyone bothers to fix any mouse. Just buy a mouse that fits your requirements.
bro, let him cook. he hasn't cross the line.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t do it, I’m just saying it’s strange.
Magic Mouse was designed to be held with two fingers and moved with the wrist.
Personally I would never buy a product completely, diametrically different from what I need and then adapt it. But I guess some people like the challenge and I have no problem with that.
it's a hobby project..
Ivan creates a lot of great projects, it’s a hobby.
What if one of my requirements is that the top of the mouse supports multi touch gestures?
As a hobby project: cool. But as a solution to a problem, how about not supporting companies that make ridiculously overpriced products with hugely deficient functional designs? Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors', for quadruple the price, but, hey, I guess they "look nice".
...which is subjective, personally I think Apple products look absolutely atrocious, with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding, and all their product's surfaces the blandest possible solid colors imaginable. So when a product not only functions worse, is several times the price, but also looks bad, what's left?
Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors’, for quadruple the price
This is also subjective. Personally, I find Apple products to work far better than the competition. I have to use Windows every day at work and I find the experience miserable, and I’ve had 3 different Android phones and always find myself returning to the iPhone.
As for the price, Apple products do cost a bit more, but quadruple is quite the exaggeration. Comparable ultrabooks to the MacBook Pro (Dell XPS line, ThinkPad X1) aren’t massively far off, and they’re made of plastic, not aluminum, which makes a difference in durability in my experience. As for mobile, the iPhone is priced in line with other high-end smartphones like the Galaxy and Pixel lines.
with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding
Padding is incredibly important for readable text content. For example, WCAG recommends that blocks of text be no more than 80 Latin glyphs wide.
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-cont...
how about not supporting companies that make ridiculously overpriced products with hugely deficient functional designs?
You made a very good point.
This whole post reminds me the whole iPhone Jailbreak thing: people devoting an huge amount of time and effort to "fix" something Apple doesn't want to be fixed.
And they're even proud of it! I find it to be utterly pathetic.
Over and over again Apple forces their manipulative decisions over their costumers and the majority just follows along.
And the funniest thing is the standard reaction on HN, a place for Apple fanboys. When Microsoft does the same this place erupts with anger, e.g: all the complaints about adds and telemetry on Windows. If Apple does it they invent excuses and over-complicated workarounds for it.
The Magic Mouse charge port is deliberate. Apple knows that people would leave the cable connected if it were placed at the edge. that would undermine the wireless aesthetic.
And if people left it plugged in all the time, it messes with the battery life?
The idea that Apple did this because they didn't know what they were doing is weird. Of course they knew what they were doing. You can charge it in a minute or two.
Additionally, all the existing lightning cables would not make good mouse cords because of their length, flexibility, and lack of strain relief.
Apple chose not to allow people to keep a cable connected not just for the aesthetics but also to keep them from reusing existing cables (instead of an hypothetical lightning mouse cord) and getting a poor UX.
First, I’ve small hands. I started with the Mighty Mouse[1]. The current Magic Mouse is comfortable for my usage. The Mighty Mouse (Wireless) was the perfect one.
I tried one of those Magic Mouse “enhancements” (2009-2010) -- a white silicon contraption -- that sits atop the mouse. It was handy, and I used it for a while. I eventually got used to the mouse in its form and stopped trying any modifications.
I have tried the Master Series from Logitech, and I like them but don’t use all the functions. I like the simplicity of the Magic Mouse.
Charging - I do it once in 45 days, or when it complains — leave it charged -- have tea, walk/run, or read. Charging was never a problem, and I believe everyone else making a lot of noise about the charging is just overblowing it. If you remember to leave it charged overnight, it needs no charging for the next month or so.
1. https://cdn.oinam.com/img/oinam/brajeshwar-apple-mighty-mous...
The Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect mouse, IMHO. Its two flaws are 1) (as the sibling comment pointed out) how the scroll ball accumulates junk and is impossible to clean without cutting open the mouse and the implementation of the side buttons.
Having a first party Apple mouse with real middle click support is awesome. The multi direction scrolling has become a mandatory mouse feature for me. The size and weight are fantastic. For those that have used it, and don’t know, the nearly haptic tic while scrolling is an internal speaker which provides great feedback (especially when the rollers get stuck and the clicking stops so you known it’s time to clean the ball).
I find the Magic Mouse uncomfortable, it has no native middle click, no side buttons. Its best feature is that it fixed the scroll ball.
I finally broke down and bought a new, old stock Mighty Mouse a few months ago. The scroll ball feels so smooth.
The Mighty Mouse size was nice, but not sure it was worth the constant hassle of cleaning the tiny track ball of whatever microscopic dust mote blocked it from working again and again - every single Mighty Mouse I ever owned would regularly jam up and be a pain to unjam. No other mouse I've ever owned or abused has had a button or wheel stop working, ever.
I do miss the distinctive "click" Apple mice of this era made a lot though.
In practice most people don't care about the charging port being on the bottom because even if you forget to charge it for several weeks and it actually stops working it only takes two minutes to charge it up enough for 8 hours of work.
As far as ergonomics goes, I've never had any more problems with a Magic Mouse than with any other mouse including ergonomic mice.
People make fun of "you're holding it wrong", but really RSI does come down to holding and manipulating things in ways that aren't good for you. What ergonomic design does is try to make it so you that you will discover and use a good way of holding the thing on your own and/or try to make it so that it is hard to hold it in a bad way.
That doesn't mean that things that do not have an ergonomic design cannot be used ergonomically. It just means you might have to consciously work at holding and manipulating them safely at least until that becomes habitual.
For the Magic Mouse the way I hold it has my fingers and palm and wrist in the same position they would be in if I were just resting my arm on the table. The mouse is the right size and shape to fit well in the dome make by the curve of my resting fingers and resting palm.
I don't really have a grip on it. It is more caged than held. Movement is mostly moving my whole arm. My wrist has barely any movement at all. Even when scrolling the wrist barely moves. Instead my arm backs up and raises so my middle finger can bend down and scroll.
A lot of us care about the charging port being on the bottom. It’s ludicrous. I can leave any top of the line Logitech mouse plugged in all the time and never have to even think about charging.
Except it’s not comparable because they make a case for the Magic Mouse, don’t allow charging it and use a lens to have the sensor track while this guy added a charging port and disassembled his mouse to have the sensor truly be on the surface
To me the most annoying thing about magic mouse is the placement of the charging port.
Cool, if you read the linked article you will see that this is also being addressed :)
I think there's already a solution: flat-flex QI charging pads, like this one: https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/iphone-lightning-qi-universal-wi...
I don't endorse that particular listing, it was just the first one in my search results. It has a QI wireless power receiver, and a right-angled lightning connector. The intended usage is to plug it into an iPhone and put a case on top - but I think it'd work just fine on the bottom of a magic mouse. You could put the power transmitter under the mouse mat and never worry about charging ever again!
I haven't tried this so maybe there are practical reasons why it's a bad idea. Has anyone tried it?
A key problem is that charging via the lightning port on a Magic Mouse disables the mouse from working. This was only fully apparent for me from skimming the linked videos in the original post. That is why the person who 'hacked' the magic mouse went to all the trouble of creating a parallel charging circuit which directly charges the battery while in operation.
I bought a Logitech
I have one of those wireless magic mouse that takes 2x AA batteries. The optical sensor started behaving in a weird way back in 2018 I think, so I stopped using it. I wouldn't mind risking breaking it by trying to fix the sensor (cleaning the lens from the inside is probably enough), adding a rechargeable battery (and whatever circuitry that entails) and maybe even enhancing the ergonomics if it still works after that.
It will never be ergonomic.. swiping left and right in that way is not how the body works
The whole product is full of bad decisions
Maybe in the next version apple can disable the mouse when it detects that it being used in third-party plastic shell.
People complain about the charging port, but I complain about having to pay extra for a black Magic Mouse.
Congrats on beating out one of the OpenAI threads!
Huge respect for the RGB :)
Seriously that charging spot is ridiculous!
Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
i think i recall reading somewhere that apple designed the mouse in the way they did in order to prevent people just leaving the mouse on charge 24/7 and hence not using its wireless capability while negatively affecting the battery.
i’m not saying i agree with apple’s decision, but i find the perspective interesting.